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A proposal for SEC football realignment

[Bumped from FanPosts to encourage more discussion.--ed.]

What rule says you have to have divisions in your conference? Divisions are actually, in my opinion, an impediment to fairness, as you can theoretically have the best three, four or five teams in one division, and it's certainly not uncommon to have the best two in a division. Rarely is that more apparent int he SEC than this year. I don't think it's a radical assertion to say that LSU and Bama should have the chance to play in an actual SEC title game, and not have what many consider to be the de facto championship game on November 5. 

Furthermore, there is an issue with odd number asymmetry, as seen in the 13 team scheduling headache. This is a headache not because of the number of teams, but on the insistence on having round robin divisions. And as the number in the divisions get larger, the scheduling gets unwieldy in a different way; it becomes difficult to maintain traditional rivalries. Let's say that Texas A&M is joined by Missouri as the two new entries into the SEC. Geography dictates that Auburn moves to the Eastern Division, which means that Alabama has to choose between having their every year interdivision game be the Iron Bowl or the Third Saturday in October.

Divisions are a mess that cause problems simply for the illusion of creating something that they ironically impede: parity. In general, dividing leagues or organizations into conferences makes sense, especially in college sports. Having multiple conference champions from the B1G, the PAC-12, the SEC, even the MAC and the Sunbelt are good for college football. But the further parsing into divisions is, quite simply, kind of dumb.

Instead I'd like to make a simple proposal, and I think the SEC is in the perfect position to lead the way in a new form of smart realignment. In fact, it's so simple that it hardly deserves the label "realignment" at all. There are three simple steps. 1) Do away with the round-robin divisions. 2) Maintain two traditional rivalry games (at least) per year for each team. 3) Play an eight game conference schedule, weighted where the opponents' cumulative record from the previous season is .500 (or very close to it). 4) Have the top two teams at the end of the year play in a conference championship game.

This would be pretty easy to make work - well as easy as scheduling can possibly be anyway.

Star-divide

Protected games:

Team:

Rivalry game 1

Rivalry game 2

Alabama

Auburn

Tennessee

Arkansas

Missouri

LSU

Auburn

Alabama

Georgia

Florida

Georgia

Tennessee

Georgia

Auburn

Florida

Kentucky

South Carolina

Vanderbilt

LSU

Ole Miss

Arkansas

 

Mississippi State

Ole Miss

Texas A&M

Missouri

Arkansas

Texas A&M

Ole Miss

Mississippi State

LSU

South Carolina

Kentucky

Vanderbilt

Tennessee

Alabama

Florida

Texas A&M

Missouri

Mississippi State

Vanderbilt

Kentucky

South Carolina

 

The other six games would be scheduled to create a balanced schedule for each team based on the previous year's records. Looking at the above chart, it's easy to see that some teams (like Bama and Florida) have tougher rivalry games than other teams (like Vandy and South Carolina). The rest of the schedule could be filled out to try to get some parity in scheduling. For example, in 2015 let's say Auburn went 5-3 in the SEC and Tennessee went 6-2. This means that Bama's rivals accumulated a 11-5 record, which is pretty good, so the remainder of their 2016 games would be against your Kentuckys and your Vanderbilts more than your Floridas and LSUs. South Carolina, on the other hand, would very likely play LSU or Florida.

Obviously, this idea can be tweaked. You can even add a third rivalry game. I only created two rivalry games per team since I didn't want some rivalries to be contrived (inevitable matchups that make little sense as rivalries, but are needed so other teams can have rivalry games, such as the Sherrill Bowl between MS State and Texas A&M), and in the process left out some awesome yearly matchups we are used to (most notably Florida-LSU). If you think I'm leaving out an important game (and I know I am) then you can make the case, or if I have the top two rivalries wrong (and I probably do in some cases). That's all peripheral to the idea I'm presenting here though.

So that's my simple idea. Divisions feel right, largely because we grew up with them. But they simply don't make sense in college football. Instead, why not create a system that makes it likely that the best two teams actually play for the SEC championship? Why not create a system that ensures rivalry games are protected? Why not do away with silly geographically-based divisions, and adopt a simple system that makes a hell of a lot more sense? 

A FanPost gives the opinion of the fan who writes it and that fan only. That doesn't give the opinion more or less weight than any other opinion on this blog, but the post does not necessarily reflect the view of TSK's writers.

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First, you've got LSU listed as a rival three times

Second, that’s going to affect whether you have three or four fan bases screaming bloody murder. South Carolina is not giving up its annual game with Georgia and Vanderbilt and Kentucky are going to fight anything that takes away their annual games with Tennessee. And LSU wouldn’t like it if they didn’t play A&M.

You have to go to at least three permanent rivalry games to make something like this work, and maybe even more. At that point, you might as well have divisions. I still have trouble figuring out why anyone has a problem with divisions.

Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.

by cocknfire on Oct 17, 2025 10:45 PM EDT reply actions  

divisions are only a problem insofar as they hurt rivalries

losing divisions is helpful only insofar as it preserves rivalries. Which, as you have pointed out in a number of cases, this proposal doesn’t. I keep saying this (to mixed reactions), but you have to let every school keep their biggest rival.

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 17, 2025 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shit I thought I edited that.

I meant to leave in the Sherrill Bowl. I will edit that. Thanks

I pretty much laid out my argument against divisions: they don’t always allow the best two teams to compete for a championship, and they introduce problem scheduling rivalries when the divisions get too large. They don’t serve a purpose.

(formerly Gregatron)
Respect the bucket, son.

by Eggplant Wizard on Oct 18, 2025 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Neither does your system

If (for a nostalgic example) Florida and Tennessee were the best two teams in the SEC, one of them would be forced to suffer a loss when they played, and some other weaker team (like, say, Miss. State) might go undefeated by facing neither of them. Then 8-0 Florida would be facing 8-0 Miss. State for the SEC Championship while 7-1 Tennessee (still the 2nd best team in the conference despite a road loss at the Swamp) was left out.

by King Joey on Oct 19, 2025 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you might be right about needing a third game.

I mentioned that. The point of this piece stands though.

(formerly Gregatron)
Respect the bucket, son.

by Eggplant Wizard on Oct 18, 2025 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like divisions.

Certainly, the three best SEC teams are all in the West this year. Maybe even the four best.

However, every West team gets their shot at every other West team. If they can’t make it, then I don’t see any compelling reason to give them another chance at it. Yes, rematches happen anyway (like last year), but it’s not very common.

Your system does protect some rivalries, but not more than the divisional system does. Florida loses it’s growing rivalry with LSU and does not regain the lost Auburn rivalry.

Vandy and Kentucky both lose UT, which would be a huge deal for them (particuarly Vandy, I think). If you give one of them to UT, then you lose UT-UF.

South Carolina loses Georgia. LSU loses Bama (not a traditional rivalry, but a growing one) and Auburn.

Even adding a third rivalry game won’t solve all these problems. The divisional system has (with A&M and Missouri joining) seven protected games for each school. Sure, some of them aren’t ideal, and important series have been lost in shuffle (AU-UF), but I think it works quite well. Right now the East is way, way down, but that won’t last forever. It probably won’t last until next year, in fact.

Oh, come on. Don't leave your uncle T-bag hangin'.

by Troll2Troll on Oct 18, 2025 1:40 AM EDT reply actions  

As an LSU fan

it is hard to pick our biggest rival, but at this point Bama, Auburn, and Florida are the top of the list. Ole Miss is the biggest historically, and Arkansas is sort of a forced rivalry. Plus, A&M is coming in as a rival. Other teams may feel the same way: there’s too many legit rivals to just keep a couple and be done with it.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Oct 18, 2025 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

A wit once said, rivalries are like quarterbacks

If you’ve got two, you’ve got none.

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 18, 2025 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Georgia disagrees.

(About the rivalries, not the QB’s.)

We have 3 legitimate “hate your guts” rivals, and at least 2 more significant rivalries. Our program’s motto is, “Finish the Drill,” but what it really should be is, “Everyone’s a Rival.”

by vineyarddawg on Oct 18, 2025 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ummmm .... there IS a rule.

Hate to burst your bubble, but there is a rule regarding divisions and conference championship games …

17.9.5.1 Maximum Limitations—Institutional. [FBS/FCS] In bowl subdivision football, a member institution shall limit its total regular-season playing schedule with outside competition during the permissible football playing season in any one year to 12 contests … except as provided for all members under Bylaw 17.9.5.2

[ Rule 17.9.5.2 explains what exceptions are allowed in order to have more than 12 conference games per year ]

17.9.5.2 (part c) Twelve-Member Conference Championship Game. [FBS/FCS] A conference championship game between division champions of a member conference of 12 or more institutions that is divided into two divisions (of six or more institutions each), each of which conducts round-robin, regular-season competition among the members of that division

If you want to have a conference championship game, you MUST have divisions with round-robin play.

As a sidenote, your rivalry game idea is basically how the ACC conducts its basketball schedule now (two games with rivals every year, and either one or two games with everyone else on a rotating basis).

It’s not a bad idea for football, and the SEC could do it. But the SEC would have to scrap the championship game to do so.

Assumption is the mother of all @#%-ups.

by mdak06 on Oct 18, 2025 8:57 AM EDT reply actions  

that rule is already broken by the MAC

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 18, 2025 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

So let's break the rule anyway and see what happens!

I would think that the NCAA would view the round-robin rule and the actual existence of divisions as different kettles of fish

Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.

by cocknfire on Oct 18, 2025 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Technically they don't break the spirit of the rule.

The rule is to ensure that divisions exist and that a round robin schedule provides a fair way to choose participants in the championship game. The MAC still plays with divisions, but it’s not a round robin schedule. The MAC has received a waiver because they have an odd number of teams, but they will be adding UMass soon and their divisions will equal out again.

by AllTideUp on Oct 18, 2025 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup

Next year, UMass will play in the MAC (although they won’t be able to be bowl-eligible or eligible for the conference championship game until 2013). So it’ll have been a five-year window under which the MAC has played with 13 teams.

Assumption is the mother of all @#%-ups.

by mdak06 on Oct 18, 2025 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but the rule can be changed

It’s not as simple as saying “well there’s a rule oh well.” If it’s not a useful rule it needs to be scrapped. If divisions are so great, conferences will keep them anyway because it’s a good idea. In other words, I don’t see why every conference should be free to set its schedule with minimal interference with the NCAA.

For many many years, this is more or less the way SEC scheduling worked . Schools were mostly free to set their own schedules, provided they met some minimum standards set by the conference office.

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 18, 2025 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

true

I think the main reason for the rule is that the NCAA figures that it is much fairer to everyone if there is a division with round-robin play that precedes a conference championship.

Without divisions, the argument is that some teams have stronger or weaker schedules than others, and so it isn’t a fair setup.

The rivalry system can work well in basketball because in basketball there can be an end-of-season conference tournament in which everyone participates. It doesn’t work that way in football.

The SEC can scrap divisions immediately if it wants to, but it needs an NCAA rule change if it wants to do that and have a conference championship game.

Assumption is the mother of all @#%-ups.

by mdak06 on Oct 18, 2025 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

“Without divisions, the argument is that some teams have stronger or weaker schedules than others, and so it isn’t a fair setup.”

This is inevitable no matter what system you use. Even in an “everyone plays everyone” system like the PAC 10 used before this year, some teams got more favorable home draws.

“The SEC can scrap divisions immediately if it wants to, but it needs an NCAA rule change if it wants to do that and have a conference championship game.”
Yeah, and this makes no sense to me. The championship game is a check on a team that draws an easy schedule, because it guarantees they have to play a to ranked opponent in the championship game. If you just awarded the championship to the team with the highest record, the team which happens to draw an easy schedule would get an unfair advantage.

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 18, 2025 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did not know this!

Thanks for pointing it out. Hopefully this could be easily changed though.

(formerly Gregatron)
Respect the bucket, son.

by Eggplant Wizard on Oct 18, 2025 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's an interesting idea

But I prefer divisions. I freely admit that if I was an Alabama or Tennessee fan, I would probably not be happy about what’s likely going to happen if Mizzou comes in as #14, but I’m not, so I don’t care.

by commodore_dude on Oct 18, 2025 12:05 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm a Tennessee fan

but I think keeping the old rivalries is good for the conference as a whole, not just for the teams involved. Would the Big XII have been different if they’d kept OU/Nebraska?

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 18, 2025 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it is good for the conference to keep as many rivalries as possible.

However, I understand why some fans are less than happy with Bama and their insistence on keeping two permanent rivals.

In actuality, UGA and Auburn are in the same boat, but those second rivalries (UGA-UF and UGA-AU) aren’t on the chopping block, so no one notices.

Oh, come on. Don't leave your uncle T-bag hangin'.

by Troll2Troll on Oct 18, 2025 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

honestly, if two permanent rivals were a problem, the chopping block should be either UGA/AU or AU/Bama

because UGA/UF and UT/Bama are both the main rivalry for one of the teams involved. The other two are games in which it is one of two for each team.

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 18, 2025 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Georgia/Auburn rivalry is the oldest football rivalary in the South.

The first game was played between these two schools in 1892, and each school has beaten the other more times than it has beaten any other SEC school in its history. (Overall, Georgia has only beaten Tech more times than it has beaten Auburn.)

Georgia/Florida would cease to become an annual event before Georgia/Auburn would.

by vineyarddawg on Oct 18, 2025 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand all of that

I think all four of those rivalries listed are non-negotiable. I was just saying that if people are really upset about teams protecting two rivalries, why don’t they go after teams that are actually worried about two rivalries?

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 18, 2025 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Would the Big XII have been different if they’d kept OU/Nebraska?"

No. That’s just an excuse Nebraska fans like to drag out from time to time.

by Gaknar on Oct 18, 2025 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've never heard any reason

Why the Big 12 couldn’t have set up protected rivalries to preserve OU/Nebraska (I don’t think there are any other relevant rivalry games there at all, but they could have done this). Now if OU was going to lose TWO rivalries, maybe there would be a case here.

by commodore_dude on Oct 18, 2025 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, there is actually a rule against not having divisions as mentioned above.

But I do agree that a floating schedule model would be better. There’s been some talk about it in the last few weeks.

I think you need to go to 9 games with 14 teams. You probably need 3 protected rivalries and then have all the other teams rotate on the schedule. You need to maintain an even number of rotating teams like we do now with 2 otherwise the math won’t work out.

I don’t think you can try to tweak the schedules from year to year based on record of the previous year. For one, no one is going to be happy if they have to travel down to the Swamp to play a game, but Florida doesn’t have to make a return trip the next year because there happens to be a more equal way of dividing out the strength of schedule. We need to maintain the home and home system.

We also need to maintain the system where we rotate teams in order to maintain conference unity. If you are basing the schedule on competitive balance only then you are bound to go several years before facing certain opponents. If that is what you’re going to do then you might as well preserve the current division model.

I also agree that you need to give a team it’s strongest rival, but if the other school has 3 more important rivalries than the first school then I think you should be out of luck there. There is no system where you can preserve all rivalries every single year unless you expand the schedule so much that you actually play a round robin schedule with every other team in the conference. That won’t happen so you just have to try to preserve as many as possible with the current 12 game format.

I’d do it like this:

Alabama: Tennessee, Auburn, Miss St

Arkansas: Missouri, LSU, Texas A&M

Auburn: Alabama, UGA, Florida

Florida: UGA, Auburn, South Carolina

Georgia: Florida, Auburn, South Carolina,

Kentucky: Tennessee, Missouri, Vanderbilt

LSU: Texas A&M, Arkansas, Ole Miss

Miss St: Ole Miss, South Carolina, Alabama

Missouri: Arkansas, Kentucky, Texas A&M

Ole Miss: Miss St, LSU, Vanderbilt

South Carolina: UGA, Miss St, Florida

Tennessee: Alabama, Vanderbilt, Kentucky

Texas A&M: Arkansas, Missouri, LSU

Vanderbilt: Tennessee, Kentucky, Ole Miss

by AllTideUp on Oct 18, 2025 1:02 PM EDT reply actions  

If someone could check my math on that....

I think that gives each team 3 protected rivalries while giving each team it’s most important rivalry. Some rivalries are sacrificed, but are not considered “untouchable” by the fan bases. Other budding rivalries like LSU-Florida and UGA-UT are also sacrificed, but these do not have the history of some of the games that are being preserved. Other games that are preserved have no real history whatsoever, but you have to balance out the numbers somehow.

The competitive balance is the only real issue with the 3 protected rivalries, but I have to assume that with 6 rotating teams on the schedule that the overall strength of schedule will be about the same.

by AllTideUp on Oct 18, 2025 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think anyone cares about LSU/Ark.

keeping Auburn or UF or Bama makes more sense from a general perspective, but on the other hand, good riddance.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Oct 18, 2025 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I could be wrong, but I thought most LSU and Arky fans thought that game had become pretty important.

I know the Florida game is pretty big, but it’s a fairly new rival as well.

As a Bama fan I would also rather have LSU over Miss St, but I don’t think most teams can get 3 teams that they want over all the others.

by AllTideUp on Oct 18, 2025 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

LSU-UF have actually played for about 40 years in a row now.

It feels like a newer rivalry because LSU was down for a while, but it’s got a fair bit of history to it.

Oh, come on. Don't leave your uncle T-bag hangin'.

by Troll2Troll on Oct 18, 2025 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't know that.

Bama has actually played UGA quite a bit through history, but we obviously haven’t played much since the last expansion.

by AllTideUp on Oct 18, 2025 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

I like the rivalry with Arkansas. Over the years it’s offered up some awesome games, and there’s something special about that game the Friday after Thanksgiving.

That’s just me though.

(formerly Gregatron)
Respect the bucket, son.

by Eggplant Wizard on Oct 18, 2025 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hate the Friday game

The students all go home for Thanksgiving and a bunch of them don’t make it back and it’s during the day and it sucks.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Oct 18, 2025 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Razorback fans care about the game more than LSU fans.

That’s primarily because it has only been played for the past 20 years as opposed to the traditional SEC opponents. The same could be said of any SEC opponent Arkansas plays really.

As a Razorback fan, of the 6 (7 including aTm) regular opponents we have I would be the most upset if we lost the LSU series. The past 6 games have been decided by a total of 21 points. If that trend continues then I expect that the Battle for the Boot will eventually reach the status of a true, if not hated/bitter, rivalry.

Ask me about the death of five hookers and how Craig James was allegedly involved.

by IsayPetrinoYouSayPaterno on Oct 18, 2025 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

As a fan looking from the outside in....

That game is always one of the most fun to watch every year. You really never know what is going to happen and there’s almost always some improbable events that contribute to the outcome.

by AllTideUp on Oct 18, 2025 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure, but that doesn't mean it's a deepseated rivalry

It’s fun because it’s produced good games between evenly matched teams, and some crazy upsets and wild finishes. A true rivalry is a game you care about whether or not the game will be good.

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 18, 2025 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

The games are definitely good

and Arkansas ALWAYS plays LSU tough. I always think they’re underrated nationally based on how they play us. But I still don’t think it’s a rivalry really. They just made up a statue and tried to make it one, cause Arkansas didn’t have any history with most of the SEC teams.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Oct 18, 2025 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

LSU-Arkansas

I just don’t care that much about that forced rivalry. It means almost nothing to me other than the basic SEC game. If you asked 10 LSU fans to rank our five biggest rivals in order, you’d get 10 different answers. It just varies so much by the person.

Personally, I want, in order:

1 Texas A&M
2 Florida
3 Alabama
4 Ole Miss
5 Mississippi St.

Arkansas would rank behind Auburn for me. I’m just not that emotionally invested in the Arkansas series. If it went away and we had to play Mizzou every year instead, it would mean nothing to me other than a longer drive.

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I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur

by Poseur on Oct 18, 2025 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Auburn definitely gets the worst of the lot under that system

Not that I really care, but I’m not sure they would agree to it.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Oct 18, 2025 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, they get screwed on the strength of annual rivals

But I’m a Bama fan so what did you expect me to do? lol

Really though, from the Auburn fans I have observed those are what they would consider their 3 largest rivals so I don’t think they would be upset to get Florida back on the schedule.

by AllTideUp on Oct 18, 2025 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

It definitely occured to me that the Bama fan gave AU the tough schedule.

It does go both ways. I occasionally complain about getting stuck with UF every year, but it is a great game.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Oct 18, 2025 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

most Auburn fans want Florida back

It’s part of the reason Auburn fans are okay with going to the East. Our top 5 most played rivals in conference are*:

1. Georgia
2. Florida
3. Mississippi State
4. Alabama
5. Tennessee

LSU has become a big game of course, but I think only Auburn fans under 25 consider it bigger than Florida. Before the 1992 expansion, those 5 teams were Auburn’s fixed opponents. Kentucky, LSU, Ole Miss, and Vanderbilt were played in a rotation (2 per year).

*-Georgia Tech is still our 2nd most played rival, but playing Florida every year would change that soon.

by AU_Jonesy on Oct 19, 2025 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Whatever happens

they need to make sure every team plays every other team within some reasonable amount of time. If you go to 7 team divisions and keep a rivalry game and go to one rotating game, you would go a decade without playing some of the other teams. That seems stupid to me.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Oct 18, 2025 1:14 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree.

I think if you have 6 rotating games rather than 1 you are definitely going to make the rounds through the conference about as often as you do now even though there are more teams to play.

by AllTideUp on Oct 18, 2025 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

minor reason it won't work:

schedules need to be made more than one year in advance. For so many reasons.

Plus, without a set cyclical pattern, you could end up with long stretches where a pair of teams wouldn’t play. Also, the issue of which home field to play on becomes more difficult when series don’t come in two-year cycles.

home of Charlie's Bye-Week Burgers

by doker on Oct 18, 2025 1:18 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

The problem I have with divisions, particularly the SEC setup, is that every team

doesn’t play every other team from the other division, yet a win or loss against that inter-division rival counts just as much in determining who gets to Atlanta.

How about this for a radical idea. Have a “regular season” that consists of only a full round-robin divisional conference schedule (so only 5 games as the league stands today), THEN schedule 3 games among the inter-divisional foes based on their standings in their division. For example, this year that would mean Bama & LSU get to take on SC & UGA instead of killing Vandy & UK, respectively, for easy conference wins. I obviously haven’t thought this all the way through, but it takes the concept of a floating type schedule based on a team strength one step further by having the schedule be determined mid season.

by TexasAUtiger on Oct 18, 2025 1:46 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I love this idea in principle

but I can also see it becoming a logistical nightmare for the individual athletic departments marketing season ticket packages. Maybe they could sell the three interdivisional games as a separate package from the rest?

And what about teams that come on later in the season, as Fulmer’s Tennessee teams were known to do?

Really interesting proposal though.

My anti-drug is football, because sometimes it is a better hallucinogen than anything you can get at Burning Man. - Spencer Hall 9/28/11

by car.full.of.midgets on Oct 18, 2025 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the logistics would be a nightmare, but probably not much different than the logistics

of the FCS playoff system (though that’s only a fraction of the total teams involved). Ideally, a playoff type scenario within the SEC is what I think would be awesome.

by TexasAUtiger on Oct 18, 2025 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really, really like this idea actually.

Have the regular season act as a sort of playoff leading to a championship game, or an end of season championship determining game between two opponents with the best record. This would be a way around the whole having to have divisions issue.

However, logistically this is a nightmare. I think it’s a wonderful idea in theory, but would not actually be possible.

(formerly Gregatron)
Respect the bucket, son.

by Eggplant Wizard on Oct 18, 2025 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, kinda . . .

but division head-to-head contests often can decide who goes to Atlanta, even if more than one team has identical conference records (for instance, see the SEC East in 2003)

by 1stn25 on Oct 19, 2025 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Slightly off topic:

What’s all this chatter about LSU and UF wanting to drop each other? I’ve seen mentioned a number of places. I have no idea about LSU’s inner workings, but I’m fairly certain that Jeremy Foley etc see LSU as vital. Because the UGA game is in Jacksonville, LSU and UT are the only major SEC programs guaranteed to make an appearance in the Swamp every other year. That’s a big deal for recruiting (official visits).

No offense intended to South Carolina, of course, but that game doesn’t generate the hype and excitement that the Tigers and Vols do.

Oh, come on. Don't leave your uncle T-bag hangin'.

by Troll2Troll on Oct 18, 2025 1:51 PM EDT reply actions  

First I've heard of it

But here’s the thing about losing the yearly rivalries - it’s not like you won’t ever play the other team. You just won’t play them every year. As an LSU fan, I’m okay with playing UF only 2 of every 3 years on a rotating basis. It’s not like the rivalry will disappear just because it goes dormant for a year. Hell LSU hasn’t played A&M in the regular season in like 20 years and both sides are chomping at the bit to get that game back

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 18, 2025 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reallly couldn't disagree more

There’s no rotating play system that will have us facing Florida 2 out of 3 years. At best, we would be looking at twice in six years, and more likely less often than that. I think back to the ‘80s, when two Heisman Trophy winners (Hershel Walker and Bo Jackson) came and went in the SEC without LSU fans getting to see either one of them. That’s kind of lame, and really goes against the notion of a “conference”; I mean, if we’re only playing each other once or twice a decade, then how does being in the same conference make them any different than, say, Tulane, UL-M or Notre Dame?

Also, I am anything but “chomping at the bit” to play A&M again. Why should I be? They are not among the elite national programs, they don’t really bring us any more credit as an opponent than, say, South Carolina, Arkansas or Tennessee, and all we really have in terms of relevant history is a 10-year home and home that ended over 16 years ago.

I don’t mind A&M coming into the SEC, and I’m sure the games will be fun (I sure liked most of the games we had back in the ‘80s/’90s), but “chomping at the bit” seems a dramatic overstatement based on my feelings and those of most of the LSU fans I know.

by King Joey on Oct 19, 2025 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

That home-and-home was only the most recent series

LSU has played Texas A&M 50 times in its history

Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.

by cocknfire on Oct 19, 2025 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

As an LSU alum/fan

I do see UF as a rival, but not a rivalry on the level of Florida-UGA, or AU-Bama. Honestly, I see Auburn-LSU as more of a rivalry. But if you get four different LSU fans in a room about who are rivals are you will get sever different opinions.

I would be okay dropping Florida, as I think it’s a little unfair to both teams to have to play each other every year, as about every other year one school or the other is a legitimate NC contender, as has that huge landmine in the Swamp or Death Valley that can potentially ruin it all (as almost happened in 2007).

That said, I have not heard anything about this either.

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by Eggplant Wizard on Oct 18, 2025 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's kind of been my perception.

That LSU doesn’t really have a true rival. Everybody kind of hates LSU and LSU kind of hates everybody else. I don’t know of any other fan base in the SEC that really considers LSU to be their primary rival although most everyone looks forward to the LSU game as a big game.

If Texas drops A&M from the schedule and Kansas drops Mizzou from the schedule then I figured the best “rivalry” set up would be A&M facing off against LSU on Thanksgiving weekend. You could follow that up with the border war of Arkansas and Mizzou. That’s at least interesting from my perspective.

Arkansas can still play LSU for the Boot in midseason or something. And A&M and Arkansas certainly want to play every year as well. There’s a few good midseason rivalries and those games could add to that.

by AllTideUp on Oct 18, 2025 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do think A&M;/LSU and Arky/Mizzou are more "natural" rivals than LSU/Arky

The other states seem to think that LSU/Arkansas is a border rivalry but the strong majority of LA’s population lives in the south of the state, far from Arkansas. Google maps says it’s 11 hours from my house to Fayetteville; roughly ten minutes less than it would take me to get to South Carolina. So it’s hard for me to think of them as a geographical rival.

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 18, 2025 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Precisely

I’m related to Aggies, not so the Hogs. I am so looking forward to us playing again. LSU and A&M are traditional rivals and the last holdover from the disaster that was the Curley Hallman Era was the death of the series. LSU-A&M is a huge rivalry that’s just been sitting dormant for too long.

I would be sad if we lost the Florida game, but I’m flexible. I just want A&M. Finally, a team in the conference that may see us as their #1 rival.

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by Poseur on Oct 18, 2025 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

If each team has three permanent rivals

then you really only need eight conference games per year to play everyone every other year.

Each team has 13 conference opponents — 3 rivals and 10 others. If they play the three rivals every year and 5 of 10 remaining opponents each year (rotating back and forth) that’s only an eight game schedule.

On the other hand, that means each team has faced only 8 of 13 conference opponents (as opposed to 9 of 13).

If the SEC actually wanted to do this, they should get together with the ACC and the MAC and see if they want the same thing. Maybe the three of them could bring about a rule change.

Assumption is the mother of all @#%-ups.

by mdak06 on Oct 18, 2025 3:00 PM EDT reply actions  

If the SEC and ACC decided that would be the rule, I'm pretty sure the MAC would have to go along

It’s an interesting idea. I know divisions hasn’t worked great for the ACC either, especially since their divisional split is so bizarre and arbitrary.

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 18, 2025 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

The good thing about rivalry scheduling

is that it “personalizes” each team’s schedule to some extent. Divisional play basically forces everyone into two groups, regardless of whether or not those groups make sense for each of the individual teams.

FWIW, the ACC doesn’t use its divisions for basketball. It uses a rivalry system. Permanent rivals (two per team) play two games every year, and each team plays the remaining nine on a three-year rotation: 3 at home, 3 on the road, 3 home & road (16-game schedule).

If the ACC / SEC / MAC are pushing rule changes regarding divisional play and conference championships, can we scrap the BCS while we’re at it?

Assumption is the mother of all @#%-ups.

by mdak06 on Oct 18, 2025 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which of these plans is better?

Assuming a non-division schedule is created that is predetermined each year (not based on previous or current season records), which of these schedules is better?

A nine-game schedule in which each team:

  • has three permanent rivals (play every year)
  • has six conference non-rival games that rotate each year
  • faces every non-rival three times every five years

or …

A nine-game schedule in which each team:

  • has five permanent rivals (play every year)
  • has four conference non-rival games that rotate each year
  • faces every non-rival every other year

Assumption is the mother of all @#%-ups.

by mdak06 on Oct 18, 2025 3:35 PM EDT reply actions  

i think so

Each team has 13 conference opponents ….. they’d have 5 rivals so that leaves 8 remaining (4 one year, 4 the next).

I haven’t specifically worked out the math but I’m presuming it can work out.

Assumption is the mother of all @#%-ups.

by mdak06 on Oct 18, 2025 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not that simple

Can you draw a set of 13 points, each of which has five but no more than five connections to other points? I tried and I can’t get it to work. But I’m no mathematician.

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 18, 2025 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I AM a mathematician

And it’s not possible.

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by doker on Oct 19, 2025 5:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

That second setup is very interesting.

I hadn’t considered that. I don’t see any reason it wouldn’t work and it would preserve even most of the secondary rivalries that people aren’t as concerned about. You get the added bonus of playing the non-rivals even more frequently. In fact, those games would be more frequent than they are right now.

by AllTideUp on Oct 18, 2025 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the frequency of non-rivals games would be the same - twice every four years. They’d just be distributed differently - instead of home, away, off, off, home, away, off, off; it’d be home, off, away, off (etc).

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 18, 2025 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't be for splitting a series up with an off year in between.

I’m not sure that’s what he was really referring to anyway. I think he was just giving us an idea of the frequency.

Your comment made me think about it more though and I was wrong actually about my earlier statement of the 2nd setup giving us more frequent non-rival meetings. Playing a team 2 out of every 4 years(or every other year if you break it into a fraction) is slightly less frequent than 3 out of every 5(which would be 6 out of every 10 if you look at complete home and away series).

Under the first setup you couldn’t rotate the games congruently though. At most you could only rotate 4 games in a given year, but you would have to rotate the other two the following year and so that would give you the 3 matchups in 5 years frequency. That setup would actually work better with a 16 team model.

The more I think about it the more I like the 2nd setup. You could either rotate all 4 non-rival matchups every 2 years or you could simply stagger it and rotate 2 of them every year. The math would work the same as the system we have now where we are rotating 1 out of 2 cross division matchups every year.

by AllTideUp on Oct 18, 2025 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

then we could get Florida in addition to Bama, Kentucky, and Vandy

that’d be cool with me. traditional though it may not be, it’s been intense for 20 years. or for 15 years, before we become allergic to football

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 18, 2025 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's 14 points

There are 14 teams, so it’s 14 points. I’m working on seeing if it works.

Assumption is the mother of all @#%-ups.

by mdak06 on Oct 18, 2025 4:07 PM EDT reply actions  

ack

that was supposed to be a reply to the comment above

Assumption is the mother of all @#%-ups.

by mdak06 on Oct 18, 2025 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK, if we assume Mizzou is in for real

I didn’t check with 14 teams. But I still think there’s a chance the SEC ends up with 13 schools for at least a couple years.

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 18, 2025 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that 13 teams makes for a screwed-up schedule regardless of what is done. I’m not sure there’s any way to make it good.

Assumption is the mother of all @#%-ups.

by mdak06 on Oct 18, 2025 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep

13 is a mess. Just ask the MAC.

by AllTideUp on Oct 18, 2025 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is possible with 14

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by doker on Oct 19, 2025 1:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

If it ain't broke...

Why don’t we just add to everyone’s enjoyment and keep the divisions, adding a second permanent rivalry game after raising the total to nine conference games. Bump Auburn over to the east and make it Bama’s second yearly rival. Give Georgia a tough one and a not-so-tough one since Auburn will then be divisional—LSU and Ole Miss, perhaps? Maintain the current home-and-home style and frequency.

We could all stand to lose one cupcake game in the OOC schedule. How much does it mean to hang fifty on an overmatched squad, anyway?

by stretchdavis on Oct 19, 2025 9:35 AM EDT reply actions  

adding a second permanent rival actually raises the total to ten conference games

adding an extra team in each division gives you nine

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 19, 2025 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

ah

I see that you caught that

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 19, 2025 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Scratch that...

Even adding the extra game, we only account for the extra team in the division. We could not add an additional permanent rivalry with the current setup unless we added two more conference games—which I would be happy to do, actually.

As a Georgia fan I would love to see 10 SEC contests, a Boise-like opener (with different results), and the final game versus Tech. Football season is short enough: why not have every game mean something?

by stretchdavis on Oct 19, 2025 9:43 AM EDT reply actions  

“Football season is short enough: why not have every game mean something?”

That we can all agree with. And by “all” I mean “everyone but coaches and ADs.” My primary dream is for a rule banning interdivisional play. No more I-A/I-AA matchups. Or, you can play one, but it won’t count as an official win and the stats won’t be recognized as official stats. It’ll never happen because those I-AA games are guaranteed home games.

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 19, 2025 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd be ok if everyone played a 1-AA team as some sort of preseason game

Have the game at home to kick off the season and don’t count it as official as you suggested. You can still sell tickets and I think most fans would show up. It can be used as a tune up game where all your backups can get playing time if you are looking for an opportunity to do that as well.

The 1-AA teams still get a payday and an opportunity to play a high profile team. I’m still ok with a cupcake OOC game or 2 during the season such as a game for HC or something, but I would like more good conference games as well. There are so many non AQ cupcakes that you still need to play at least one team like that every year as well. You can sell all of the extra quality games to the networks so I don’t see this hurting the revenue stream. There will be just as many teams in bowls at the end of the day so I don’t see that being a problem.

by AllTideUp on Oct 19, 2025 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nice Try

But Arkansas will not give up games with A&M, Ole Miss, and LSU. Move Auburn East, put Mizzou West, and go to a nine game conference schedule with two designated cross-divisional rivals. Bama could pay UT and Auburn yearly.

by Arkansawyer on Oct 19, 2025 10:01 AM EDT reply actions  

" Arkansas will not give up games with A&M;"

Seems to me Arkansas did just that roundabout 1991.

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 19, 2025 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

if you do that

we play non-rivals exactly once every FIVE years.

Why not just send Mizzou East, make Arkansas their cross-over rival, and say no more about it?

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 19, 2025 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which division alignment/adjustment do you like best?

If I missed anything, please feel free to add to the pros/cons.

1. Put Mizzou in the East
Pros: pretty much keeps everything “as is” with everyone else (3 “traditional powers” in each division, no changes to rivalries, etc.); evens the scheduling out; balances current (or at least the last 5 years) team strengths
Cons: geographically out of whack; undue travel expenses to/from Columbia for other division rivals (UF & USCar in particular), especially for non-revenue sports

2. Send Auburn east
Pros: Geographically makes sense; balances historical team strengths; renews AU/UF rivalry; adds some (current/recent) strength to the East
Cons: splits up either Iron Bowl or UT/Bama (unless an exception is made); puts 4 of the 6 “traditional powers” in one division

3. Send Bama & Auburn east, shift Vandy west
Pros: Makes somewhat geographic sense (as these 3 are in the middle and realistically can go either direction); keeps all rivalries in tact (including UT/Vandy—if you want to call it a “rivalry”—as a cross-division game); allows some of the cross-divisionals that currently don’t make sense or aren’t anything special to be reshuffled
Cons: the only “traditional power” in the West would be LSU; the “strength” would now be in the East

4. Blow up the divisions and start from scratch
Pros: Start from scratch in drawing divisional lines, or just redrawing divisions, giving a clean slate to work with; would keep rivalries in tact somehow
Cons: may end up with nonsense divisional names and alignments (see ACC & B1G for examples)

Being a Mizzou & MSU alum, my preference is #3 for what it’s worth. The Mizzou part of me really doesn’t care where we end up, as long as we’re out of the Texas League. The only cross-divisional games that actually mean something right now are UT/Bama, UGA/AU, and (to a lesser extent) LSU/UF. The others aren’t very compelling most years. If it’s shaken up from this starting point, the cross-divisionals could go anywhere.

by tigerdog9396 on Oct 19, 2025 10:55 PM EDT reply actions  

gotta be #1 or #4

and I think your analysis of #1 is flawed. The geographical and travel problems aren’t really much to be worried about. The only East trip that is significantly longer than the West trips is Florida. South Carolina is just a touch farther than A&M. Kentucky and Vandy are closer than any West team but Arkansas.

And the conference isn’t divided into divisions in all non-rev sports. Not sure how many it is and how many it isn’t.

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 20, 2025 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Interstate vs. non-interstate travelling

Most (current) East Division schools are on/near 2-digit interstates (the exception being UGA), which expedites travel quite a bit to/from these cities, including Columbia (on I-70).

West Division schools, on the other hand, are not so much: LSU, Bama, Auburn, and that’s it.

While I prefer #3, I’m totally OK with #1. 2 risks too many complications, and 4 goes in an ACC/B1G direction that the SEC doesn’t seem proned to do.

Time to go look forward to the MSU/UK game…:)

by tigerdog9396 on Oct 20, 2025 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I say do #1 and shift Arky/Mizzou to a cross-division rivalry

USC and Arky don’t have enough history to make that a problem. That allows y’all yearly games with the three shortest trips (Arkansas, Vandy, Kentucky). As long as losing the biennial game in College Station isn’t too big of a problem. . .

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 20, 2025 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

As long as we're not in the Texas League...

…that’s about all that matters to Mizzou right now.

And then we’ll show you…make that y’all…what Tom Osbourne meant when he referred to Missouri as “a sleeping giant”; after all, we’re the “Show Me State”. :)

by tigerdog9396 on Oct 21, 2025 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

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