I Hope Baylor's Lawsuit Threats Postpone, and Eventually Cancel, Texas A&M's Move to the SEC
by Year2 on Sep 7, 2011 4:17 PM EDT
in Conference Realignment
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PrintThe latest according to TexAgs.com's Billy Liucci is that Baylor is not backing down on its threat to sue the SEC for tortious interference if Texas A&M leaves the Big 12. Given that SEC presidents will not budge on their requirement of legal waivers from all Big 12 schools and the conference, it means that TAMU's move to the SEC is on hold.
I think that's a great development. I couldn't be happier with that news.
I understood it when Colorado left the Big 12, because its cash-strapped program needed the Pac-12's impending windfall badly. I understood it when Nebraska left the Big 12, because it had been the Big Eight kingpin and never got along with Texas in their 15 years together in the conference.
I don't fully understand why Texas A&M and Oklahoma are in such a hurry to get out of the Big 12 as well. I get that Texas and ESPN have generated a lot of hurt feelings with how they've handled the creation of the Longhorn Network, but those are just feelings. The NCAA quashed A&M's and OU's primary concerns in regards to high school games being shown on it. Under no circumstances can ESPN force their teams to appear on the LHN either. The network brings Texas more money, but as Bob Stoops said in a recent press conference, Texas has always had the most money in the region.
As the old saying goes: prediction is very difficult, especially about the future. Things are rough now, but that doesn't mean they always will be. That doesn't mean that a workable solution can't be found. That doesn't mean that walking away is the only way forward.
No matter what the TV contract financials say, the SEC is the strongest football conference in the nation. It will continue to be in the future because its footprint produces more and better athletes than any other conference's footprint. The commitment to football by the schools and fans make it the most attractive league to coach in, and the collection of coaches in the SEC has been the best consistently for the past decade or more. Does the Pac-12's monster contract mean that when UCLA fires Rick Neiheisel, it will be able to pry Saban from Alabama or Miles from LSU? Of course not. I'm not even sure it could get Dan Mullen out of Starkville.
The SEC has won the current system. The SEC Championship Game is the only conference title game that is big time and works. Will the Pac-12 and Big Ten title games do well? Perhaps, but the ACC Championship Game has overall been a failure and the remaining Big 12 coaches couldn't kiss their championship game goodbye quickly enough. The SEC's standing as best conference means that it will get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to getting into the BCS National Championship Game. Florida going ahead of Michigan in 2006 was the first big test of that, and the Gators' 41-14 blowout win all but codified the principle in the BCS bylaws.
The best explanation I can come up with for why the SEC is fine with A&M coming aboard is because changing the membership will allow it to renegotiate its television deals. When the Pac-12 got a richer deal than the SEC's, I'm sure that hurt a lot of pride in the league office in Birmingham. I would then ask this question: so what?
What the SEC gets from its deals is more than enough to run big time programs. It will continue to be more than enough through the lifetime of the deal. The Pac-12 got the most money because it had last-mover advantage. Well, guess who gets to go last next time around? The SEC does. Besides, the SEC's deals with CBS and ESPN ensure that it has the widest distribution of its best games among all the conferences. The SEC's contracts might not be the richest, but they provide plenty of money, exposure and stability.
The SEC should have told Texas A&M to give the new Big 12 a try and to come back in a few years if they still felt leaving it was the best move. Clearly that's not what happened, or at least what the SEC stuck to as time passed. The threats of legal action from Baylor (and apparently Iowa State, K-State and Kansas too) are all that's standing in the way of A&M heading east.
I hope Baylor sticks to its guns. I hope they exhaust every option they have. I hope this drags on long enough that cooler heads prevail, especially given that Texas probably doesn't want to go west anyway. I hope this Hail Mary pass connects and it causes the current ten schools to give the new Big 12 setup an honest try.
Realistically, I know it won't. It's only making the unhappy people even more unhappy, which then makes the already remote chances of a Big 12 reconciliation even less likely.
I want to believe that college athletics is more than just a naked cash grab by the people in charge of it. I really do.
That hope is dying.
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Hoping that litigation will keep universities together
Is like hoping that screwing will keep someone a virgin.
by jagvocate on Sep 7, 2011 4:20 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Ha, good one.
The Pac12 didn’t get it’s huge contract just because of the “last mover advantage” If that were true, the Big10 wouldn’t be making more than the SEC, and the ACC would be. Oh and the last mover will be the Big East when they do their deal next year (bet they don’t get more than the SEC). Baylor may stop TAMU from moving to the SEC (which is your point of course), but it’s not going to stop the march to 16 team conferences or the death of the Big12.
by ev on Sep 7, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
That's silly.
Of course the PAC 12 got as much on they did on their deal because of the SEC’s existing contract. The SEC raised the market rates, and the PAC12 benefitted. It’s not a slight on the PAC12 to admit that. The ACC/Big East deals are non issues, as neither has the worth of the other four BCS conferences.
The Big10 is also not a consistent comparison as it involves an entirely separate network.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
by Slice of Life on Sep 7, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yes it did
The SEC deal raised the values for everyone else, and the Pac-12’s deal is only as big as it is because Comcast jumped in and created more competition. Comcast’s purchase of NBC only cleared in January of this year, meaning it couldn’t be a player in any other league’s TV rights negotiations.
The Big East won’t get as much money because it doesn’t have as good of properties as anyone else. The point is that if the SEC negotiations had the same variables as the Pac-12’s did (and it would have one more, with CBS in there), it would end up with more money than the Pac-12 did.
The Big Ten gets more than the SEC because of the Big Ten Network. The SEC gets more from its first and second tier rights than the Big Ten does.
Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2
Ok so it's not just because of last mover advantage right?
That is what you are saying now isn’t it? I’m not saying the Pac12 would have gotten more had they both renegotiated at the same time, just that it wasn’t only the last mover advantage. Oh and it was the Big10 who raised values for everyone, they had the first mega deal. The SEC was paid extra to not start a true network, you can’t now leave the Big10 network money out in a comparison. After all, there are no third tier rights in the Big10 or Pac12.
by ev on Sep 7, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
If the Pac-12 didn’t go last, Comcast wouldn’t have been a contender.
Again, the Big Ten’s first and second tier deals aren’t as big as the SEC’s are.
Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2
Not sure why the SEC even cares about the waiver
Waiving your legal right to sue has proven to be difficult to uphold in court
Respectfully disagree
A&M is too big a prize to pass up, and SEC essentially has a moral obligation to take A&M’s side.
Besides, Baylor’s litigation threat is just the dying gasp of a school that never should have been in a BCS conference in the first place, and if Baylor were to bring suit, it would stand virtually no chance of prevailing.
A school without football is in danger of deteriorating into a medieval study hall.
Vince Lombardi
thanks for being so mature in your response
What I meant to convey was that A&M would not have made the moves it has made over the past month or more except if it had reasonable assurances from Mike Slive/SEC that if A&M complied with the Big12 exit procedures, it would be welcome into the SEC. The SEC presidents last night let A&M down by including the condition of a waiver from each Big12 member school. My guess is that either the SEC removes that condition on its own, or after A&M agrees in writing to indemnify the SEC and SEC members schools (and perhaps Slive personally) concerning any damages that Baylor or any other Big12 member school might cause. (But I could be wrong – none of us has a complete enough picture to be sure of anything in this drama.)
A school without football is in danger of deteriorating into a medieval study hall.
Vince Lombardi
We have no idea what's gone on...
and clearly a potential lawsuit was considered from day one of this discussion, and was obviously a precondition to offering membership. That’s why A&M had to notify them in advance of their exit, and an offer was only extended when it was made clear that there would be no lawsuit.
The SEC isn’t obligated to do anything… we didn’t start this mess, we were simply taking advantage of it.
by Caban on Sep 7, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
New AP article sheds some more light
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=14466932
Note incompetent Dan Beebe’s role in this.
A school without football is in danger of deteriorating into a medieval study hall.
Vince Lombardi
More - from a tweet by Carlton of Dallas Morning News re A&M's head Loftin
Loftin: "It’s like a marriage; if it’s over, it’s over. We feel we’re being kept against our will, which we believe is very inappropriate."
A school without football is in danger of deteriorating into a medieval study hall.
Vince Lombardi
by agulhas78 on Sep 7, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or, to put it in movie terms:
“Oh. Well, if you strenuously object then I should take some time to reconsider.”
by vineyarddawg on Sep 7, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with you in one aspect
We do have a moral obligation to A&M but they are not too big a prize to pass up. A month ago I really didn’t want A&M to come. Now, after all this shit has started, I say fight till the death. If A&M really wants in, and it is apparent that they do, then I am more than happy to go to war. It is amazing some of the crap I have read posted by fans of teams from around the country about the SEC. They hate us because we are great, so I say do whatever it takes to keep A&M.
In battling for A&M, the SEC could
Demonstrate the all-for-one, one-for-all conference unity that sets it apart from, most starkly, the Beebe12-2-1. There’s an opportunity now for Slive & Co. to show how great they are – which future entrant(s) 14 (15 & 16) will find tremendously important in weighing conference-changes in the near future.
I don’t think Slive and the SEC schools wanted to take this stuff on yet, but because of who A&M is, and the courting that’s occurred, he and the SEC would be less than honorable to run from this fight, now that Ken Starr has taken everyone to DefCon1.
Being Southern men of honor (Slive by choice), it’s simply the right and proper thing to do.
A school without football is in danger of deteriorating into a medieval study hall.
Vince Lombardi
by agulhas78 on Sep 7, 2011 6:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
great minds think alike, right?
A school without football is in danger of deteriorating into a medieval study hall.
Vince Lombardi
agreed
End of the day it is my belief that A&M is in the SEC sooner rather than later regardless of litigious threats. My best guess is they are trying to get the SEC to slam the door closed so they can say, “See what the SEC did.” It is in the best interests of all the SEC schools to make this happen now. Welcome A&M with open arms and fight anyone that opposes. Like I said, I didn’t want them in the first place but now it is about more than just keeping the status quo.
by David Story on Sep 7, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Southern men of honor FTW
If you didn’t already know, that’s the kind of thing the Aggies are really looking for and why the SEC is a natural fit. That has always been part of the culture clash we’ve had with some others.
We’ll try our best to tear ya up on the field, and it might get pretty heated on Saturday, but you’ve got to stick together off the field and during the week.
Proud Aggie class of ’88
Old Army!
First of all, if the SEC wants TamU, they should just let them in.
Why would you let Baylor, of all schools, dictate what you do? Second of all, who can fault TamU for wanting to leave?Third, all of this fear of change is the same nonsense that was spouted on rec.sports.football.college back in 1990-1992. The sky is not falling, Chicken Littles. Change happens. Keep up, or just watch ESPN Classic the rest of your life.
by danmarcel on Sep 7, 2011 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Why should Baylor just roll over? That’s nonsense, no one is saying the sky is falling people are just saying they don’t like the idea of a 16 team conference. With the addition of tamu that’s excately where we are heading.
It's where we are headed anyway
TYhe Big 12 is dying and will die period.
by BTD on Sep 7, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't blame Baylor for a second
For that matter, I am not sure why Iowa St and Kansas St. wouldn’t be in on this as well. These three teams are likely to be left without a chair when the music stops, and its going to cost them millions. I hate the notion of this whole 64 teams in super conferences because basically everyone else may as well become a FCS school. Its not going to financial feasable for these teams to continue to attempt to compete at the highest level.
I don't either
I blame Texas actually for the demise of the Big 12..
by BTD on Sep 7, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Gator fan
I find it hard to believe that anyone would dispute that Texas is at the heart of the demise of the Big 12.
Hell, Texas knows it.
by BTD on Sep 7, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm a Vol
Unbiased vis a vis the Longhorns, and I put ALL of this on Texas’s shoulders.
Texas is an Alpha dog. I get that. But Alabama is also an Alpha Dog, and yet it can play nice with its friends. Ohio State is an Alpha Dog and it plays nice with its friends.
When Texas was in kindergarten, the teacher certainly marked the “does not play well with others” box on every single report card.
No homer.
i can see BU, ISU, and KSU teaming up, but
ISU and KSU have possible BCS landings that they might be prejudicing if they are too strident in supporting Baylor’s power play. Baylor has no such options, given its pathetic fanbase and historically laughable sports performance … And has likely burned many lesser options it might had by being such poor sports lately.
A school without football is in danger of deteriorating into a medieval study hall.
Vince Lombardi
by agulhas78 on Sep 7, 2011 6:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
If it isn't financially feasible to compete...
And you are coasting on the fanbases and revenues generated by the better programs around you, maybe you belong in the FCS anyway.
"So I want everybody to think here for a second, how much does this game mean to you? 'Cause if it means something to you, you can't stand still. You understand? You play fast! You play strong! You go out there and dominate the man you're playing against, and you make his ass quit! That's our trademark! That's our M.O.... as a team! That's what people know us as!" - Coach Nick Saban before the 2008 LSU game.
by 12NationalChampionships on Sep 7, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This is all sorts of wrong
Texas A&M has every right to decide it does not want to be in the Big 12.
The fact is Baylor does not care if A&M is in the Big 12, Baylor cares that there is a Big 12 as it is certain to be dropped to lesser conference status.
As for A&M coming to the SEC, I think that is definitely a positive. Mofe importantly, the Big 12 will blow up sooner rather than later anyway.
And most of them are Pac 12 bound. The SEC should take A&M now and then start looking around for more.
This is apoorly considetred post imo.
I think it is living in a fantasy world where thebBig 12 might survive. It surely will not.
by BTD on Sep 7, 2011 5:32 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I know it won't
And I never said A&M doesn’t have the right to determine its destiny.
The point was, all along the SEC should have been telling A&M to tap the brakes and give the new Big 12 an honest shot of working. After all, it takes two to tango and A&M can’t join the SEC if the SEC won’t take it.
I don’t think superconferences are a good idea, and I expect them to be unstable. Going to them is entirely about money, and the larger they are, the harder it is to get unity among the members. Eventually some group is going to decide that it can get more money per school by breaking off from the less lucrative members like what happened when the original MWC schools left the WAC.
The end game is not a new division with 64 schools in 16-team super conferences. It’s more likely to be a new division of 48 (or fewer) schools in smaller conferences without the smaller schools currently in the BCS leagues. I don’t think that’s good for any sport or the NCAA as a whole.
Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2
Nope
If A&M does not move now, then they are stuck to Texas forever which meant the Pac 12 for them.
That is PRECISELY why they are doing this They want nothing to do with the Pac 12.
They want the SEC. I’m not sure why you find that an unreasonable position.
As for Super Conferences, that will bve true for ALL of them, except one – the SEC. Because the SEC has not Texas in it. Alabama can’t dictate. Florida can’t dictate. Obviously no one can. The sum is greater than the parts.
The SEC can and WILL make 16 work.
Here’s the thing for me – Save room for UNC and Duke.
I would say save room for Texas and Oklahoma, but they’ ll
NEVER come (Oklahoma will follow Texas and that means Okla State too.) . Texas is the issue in the Big 12. And they always will be.
The Pac 16 will be interesting if USC stands back up. I think that one blow apart. Because of Texas,
by BTD on Sep 7, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Since when was it wrong to state a preference?
There’s a difference between being wrong about what will probably happen, which Year2 acknowledges at the end of his post, and stating a preference for the current conference arrangements over 16 team super conferences.
The analysis is wrong
Unless you are saying the preference is provided without analysis.
I woiuld not insult the write that way and in fact, that would be inaccurate anyway..
by BTD on Sep 7, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok. You are right and everyone and anyone against the idea of the 16 team conference is wrong.
Move along guys. BTD has settled it for us. I do wish we knew this before we started the discussion. It would have saved us a lot of time.
Ugh
Is this blog like this?
Would it have been acceptable to you if I said “I disagree with your reasoned approach but I respectfully assert that there are erroneous assumptions in your analysis?”
Is this one of those Miss Manners blogs? Gawd, I hope not.
We are exchanging opinions. I hope no one’s feelings are getting hurt because someone said “I think you are wrong.”
I imagine people disagree about stuff here. Or maybe not.
Anyway, I’m out. This silliness is not interesting.
by BTD on Sep 7, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Those types of manners are not reserved for certain kinds of blogs.
If you choose not to convey your arguments in a constructive way, that is you prerogative. But do not be surprised when people respond to you the way I have.
Many people here disagree. Unlike you, they know how to do it with tact and respect.
Good day.
Lack of respect
is treating people like children.
“I think you are wrong” is not a sign of disrespect.
by BTD on Sep 7, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
If you want to call it a “Miss Manners” blog, I guess it is… we enjoy talking about football in a respectful way than fighting the constant flame wars that populate nearly every other sports community on the internet.
When did it become unmanly to treat people with respect?
Thanks Caban
I didn’t mean to police this blog as it is not my place to do so (that would be for Year2 and cocknfire), but I’ve been around these parts for several years and I have a good feel for how things operate around here. I didn’t know if I was the only that felt that way about BTD or if I was just getting my panties in a wad.
He’d be better suited for a variety of message boards or the AJC (or any other local paper but the AJC is the prime example) comment section.
Nah
I think I
‘ll discuss it with some adults who don;’t think sayng “O think you are wrong” is a flame war.
If this blog thinks that this approach is civil, well, you;re wrong. It’s silly and juvenile.
You’re right, this is not a blog for me.
by BTD on Sep 7, 2011 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't let the door hit you on the way out
I know you think everything you have stated is right, but let me just throw this out there: you would be wrong. Nice grammar by the way, for someone who is trying to appear high and mighty.
Constant flame wars?
“I think you’re wrong” is a flame war?
That’s ridiculous.
Enjoy the tea and crumpets.
by BTD on Sep 7, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
You're going to say
enjoy you’re tea and crumpets when you have over 900 comments and 25 fan shots on Podium cafe?
Not following you
Is this the a civil remark belittling cycling as a sport?
Omigosh!!!!
Is that sort of thing allowed here at the pristine Team Speed Kills Blog?
Where’s the respect?
Actually, that’s a funny comment. I laughed when I read it.
Not feeling “incivilized” in the least.
Sort of my point. We’re all adults here.
by BTD on Sep 7, 2011 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
i thought about it but refrained from posting it aaron
Anyone can say anything they want until the moderators decide otherwise. Like the old saying goes, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink but your own. The realignment issue has brought out the passion in everyone, myself included. We can all agree to disagree at some point in time let’s just keep it civil. As for BTD, I am not telling you what to do but when I visit a new blog and begin posting I try to do it with a little humility until everyone gets to know my penchant for being a complete asshole. My fingers tend to override my dignity at times. With this being an open forum you can post what you would like but don’t get offended when people that have been here for some time call you out on it. No one knows you except by your cycling posts. You have no allegiance to any teams on your profile so it is difficult to see what angle you are coming from.
At first, I just thought the Baylor thing was a last ditch effort by a desperate school
but did the SEC just expect A&M to take care of this without some sort of vetting or inspection. Clearly, there are some loopholes A&M didn’t account for.
Google's homepage celebrates too much shit.
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