Road to the BCS Championship, Week 13
Help us Obi Wan Ken-Hokie. You're our only hope.
Those folks who are opposed to a rematch on principle need a hero, and that hero looks like the main course you're statistically likely to have for dinner on Thursday.
Yes, Virginia, there is a potential one-loss AQ conference champion that didn't gag away a game to Iowa State. The Hokies of VPI are that team, and they're not a bad pick as long as you don't look too closely at some of their games (They beat ECU by seven? And Duke by just four?).
The team's loss to Clemson is a completely respectable one. VT's not the "Tech" school in the ACC known for LARPing. Plus, is has a great running back in David Wilson, an up-and-coming quarterback in Logan Thomas, a typically good Bud Foster defense, and almost no shot of beating LSU in the bowl game.
But hey, it's not a rematch, right?
On second thought, is there another option?
If your goal is purely to avoid a rematch, your best bet is this week the same as it was last week: Oklahoma State.
The Cowboys fell from a tie for first all the way to second in the computer rankings despite the loss to Iowa State. They're only ahead of Alabama by a sliver, but they play the computers' No. 6 team in two weeks while all Alabama has left is the computers' No. 22 team. If OSU beats the Sooners, it should remain ahead of the Tide in that component of the formula.
By comparison, VT is seventh behind two-loss Oklahoma and two-loss Kansas State. If it was to finish with one loss, it would beat Virginia and Clemson over the next two weeks. The algorithms don't care much about those two, which means the Hokies have no real shot of making a computer poll surge.
The Cowpokes would need a tidal wave of help in the human polls which may or may not come, but their support in the computer polls is very secure.
Chances of a LSU-Alabama rematch: 70%
Before we continue, let's establish this as the foundation for the rest of this piece: human voters are lazy, emotional, short-sighted, and distracted by shiny things. There's a messed up kind of logic that applies to them that is different from standard, reasonable logic.
With that said, I can imagine only one way to avoid a rematch if both LSU and Alabama win this weekend. Alabama wins closely against Auburn, perhaps even in a sketchy manner. A week later, Oklahoma State blows out Oklahoma. Voters will have soured on Bama a bit due to the manner of the close win, and they'll have had an extra week to stew on that as Alabama's season will be over. Meanwhile, Oklahoma State's big win over OU will be fresh in voters' minds, and many of them are against a rematch on principle.
If, somehow, that confluence of events results in Oklahoma State and Alabama being roughly even in the human polls, the computers might cast a tiebreaking for the Cowboys. That may be a far-fetched scenario, but as I said, the BCS is not an institution where sense is always made. Having extra time without playing was undoubtedly a factor in Michigan not getting to rematch Ohio State in 2006.
If anti-rematch voters can in any way add "should have lost to Auburn" on to Alabama's resume, anything is possible. Keep this in mind as well: Auburn will be a 7-5 team with a loss to Bama. If Iowa State can upset either Oklahoma or Kansas State in the next two weeks, it will also be a 7-5 team. That might just be enough.
For right now though, an LSU-Bama rematch is looking likely. They will both have very strong computer rankings, and they're huge favorites this weekend. Even if LSU loses to Arkansas, a Tide-Tigers rematch is still the most likely result (assuming Georgia doesn't then beat LSU in the SEC title game). Let's unpack why that's the case.
LSU has a non-conference win over the Pac-12's likely champ Oregon and a victory over Bama. Alabama has a non-conference win over one of the Big Ten's best teams in Penn State and a big win over Arkansas. Arkansas has no signature non-conference win thanks to Texas A&M's inability to hold second half leads, so its victory over South Carolina will have to do as its biggest win other than LSU.
I think voters will consider those South Carolina and Penn State wins a wash. If Arkansas beats LSU close, they'll probably think of that win and Alabama's loss as close to a wash. Alabama's big win over Arkansas would then carry most of the weight in the discussion of the two teams, giving the Tide a huge advantage.
I contend that the occurrence that would shake things up the most is not a Georgia win over an undefeated LSU in the SEC Championship Game. In that case we get either LSU-Alabama or LSU-Oklahoma State depending on how the human votes shake out. Alabama-Oklahoma State is a possibility, but I think voters would keep LSU ahead of Bama based on the Tigers' head-to-head win.
No, the real thing that would make everything confusing is a big Arkansas win over LSU. I mean, one where the final margin is more than one score and no one thinks it was a fluke. Voters would probably feel obligated to put Arkansas ahead of LSU, but would they keep LSU ahead of Alabama? Would they keep Alabama ahead of Arkansas? After all, the Hogs would have just beat in November the team that Bama lost to in November, while Alabama's win over Arkansas came in September. The Razorbacks would win the "best team right now" argument and would also try to make some kind of "we got better as the year went along" case to sand off the rough edges of that bad loss to the Tide.
That is the one scenario that I don't feel like anyone could accurately predict. Ultimately, I don't think we'll get there.
Alabama will probably get a good game from Auburn this weekend; even the 2009 national title squad struggled with a 8-5 Tiger team. Bama will probably win though. It's true that Arkansas knocked off LSU last year, but that was not in Tiger Stadium, and Arkansas' offensive line this year is not as good as it was last year. LSU's defense will likely carry the day.
If those two teams win out, they'll almost certainly play for the national championship. Welcome to the SEC's apex of power.
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College football already has a playoff
it’s called “The SECCG”
"Difficulties strengthen the mind, as labor does the body."
― Seneca
Not at all.
A playoff implies either team who wins it will be in the NC game. Aside from those two epic Florida/Bama games, this hasn’t been the case at all.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell
I saw this:
It’s true that Arkansas knocked off LSU last year, but that was not in Tiger Stadium
and that is very true…. but 2007 was in Tiger Stadium. But you addressed that point, maybe without addressing the 2007 game specifically. That was an overtime game that came down to a two-point conversion. If Arkansas wins on the road in close manner like that, then it is really going to be a mess.
- FOW
An Arkansas Possibility
(please note that this is a BIG IF)
Should Arkansas beat LSU on Friday, they should be ranked Number 1 in the BCS (at worst #2)
Alabama should beat Auburn on Saturday. Alabama would be number 2 (or maybe #1)
LSU now being a one loss team should fall to no worse than #3.
If Arkansas is #1 and Alabama is #2, ’Bama goes to the SECCG. If (when) they beat Georgia they would at best go to #1 and Arkansas to #2. BCSNCG = Alabama vs Arkansas
If Arkansas beats LSU and LSU drops only to #2 the Arkansas would play Georgia in the SECCG. Should Arkansas beat Georgia and LSU stays at #2 then BCSNCG = Arkansas vs LSU.
Regardless of who wins on Friday the message needs to be “Don’t blame the SEC, blame the BigXII and Pac12for having so many teams that don’t know how to play defense!”
"I solemnly swear to tell the truth as I know it, the whole truth as I believe it to be, and nothing but what I think you need to know."
ESPN’s BCS guy Brad Edwards thinks Arkansas will still be third even with a win on Friday. For whatever that is worth.
I don’t think it would be too far fetched if a close Arkansas win and a close Bama win is followed by an order of Arkansas-LSU-Alabama, which puts the Hogs in Atlanta.
Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2
Here is some more ammo:
Alabama’s last three SEC games:
Alabama 36 – Tennessee 6
Alabama 6 – LSU 9
Alabama 24 – Miss. State 7
And Arkansas’s last three SEC games:
Arkansas 44 – South Carolina 28
Arkansas 49 – Tennessee 7
Arkansas 44 – Miss. State 17
Which team is playing better right now?
"I solemnly swear to tell the truth as I know it, the whole truth as I believe it to be, and nothing but what I think you need to know."
by TX_HogFan on Nov 21, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If Arkansas beats LSU definitely there should be no question
It should be an Arky/LSU rematch. If it’s close, then the waters are muddied. Alabama beat both Vandy and Ole Miss soundly, and Arkansas struggled in both.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell
*definitively
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell
so a close win is no better than a close loss?
That’s good to know…the whole “score more points than the other team” thing is so overrated. On that note, congrats to last year’s national champs, the Oregon Ducks. After all, Auburn had all those close wins…
Alternately, here’s a crazy thought, but bear with me: if Arkansas beats LSU (admittedly a long shot, but not impossible), even by one point, that should be considered more impressive than Alabama’s close loss to LSU. I know that’s a radical notion, but I have this wild idea that the team that actually scores more points than the other team should be given credit for that.
Actually, sorry for even suggesting that – I know that’s too ‘out there’ to even consider. We should just pencil in LSU and Alabama because they were ranked higher at the beginning of the season and, most importantly, have more historical prestige. Basing opinions around on the field results is so silly!
Unfortunately there is no direct way
To know who would win between Alabama and Arkansas, huh?
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell
by TexaninNYC on Nov 21, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
that's not even remotely what I was saying
My point, which I think I made pretty clear, is that when you start saying a close win is no better than a close loss (when the teams involved are more or less equal) then you’ve entered some pretty bizarre territory.
but on that note, congrats on your win in the Iron Bowl last year
You guys really kicked Auburn’s ass! I mean, you didn’t technically win on the scoreboard but it was a close game so same difference.
Typically, no one would think twice about the marginal value of a three-point win over a three-point loss. That only becomes a consideration when you get into unsolvable three-way ties.
The point of that remark was to show how voters are likely to think. I’m not saying they should think that way; it’s merely a prediction that they will think that way. Remember what I said about voters at the beginning of the third section.
Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2
I don't think anyone's arguing it's the same thing.
It’s just that with the strange circumstance that would arise should Arkansas barely beat LSU, it will lead to the same results.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell
So you're saying
that you guys don’t deserve a rematch with LSU should you both win out.
After all, we already know how that works out.
Awww. c'mon girl.
If Arkansas destroys LSU? No.
Then it should be Arkansas/LSU. If LSU wins or the game is close? Yes.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell
Wait
So if Arkansas blows out LSU then LSU deserves a rematch with them even though we would have lost by 3 to LSU in OT and blew out Arkansas.
by ELIminatingthecompetition on Nov 21, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
If Arkansas
Beats LSU by more than two TD’s. I’d like to see a rematch of Arkansas vs Alabama.
Arkansas is playing much better now than it was when the two teams first met, not to mention healthy on the D-Line again.
Alabama was better than Arkansas in September. I think Arkansas is better than Alabama now.
"I solemnly swear to tell the truth as I know it, the whole truth as I believe it to be, and nothing but what I think you need to know."
So a close win against LSU makes you better than the Bama team that beat you by 24 points?
Whenever you have one of these three-way ties, it’s almost impossible to break. Don’t make it sound like it’s completely idiotic to think that the one team whose loss was a blowout might be the one voters look at askance.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
If LSU beats Arkansas and Georgia
And OK State wins at Bedlam, I am positive the voters (at least enough) will elevate OK Sate over Bama. Whether we like it or not, OK State is playing in a stronger, deeper conference, and they have a better resume and better wins than Bama.
Their loss is a bit worse (against a team that’s barely bowl eligible v the #1 team), but it was close and away, whereas Bama’s was close and at home. There’s no way the voters will agree to a rematch unless there really are no other options, and OK State (assuming they win) looks like a very good option.
I don't think the voters need to...
… looking at the computer rankings, Oklahoma St would just have to be close to Bama in total votes in the human polls and their computer poll numbers would likely vault them into the #2 slot. I think this is the Bama Nightmare Scenario – win out, but get leapfrogged by Okie St. The Pokes will pick up traction in the polls with a Bedlam victory and maybe a loss by VT. They can also explain away their loss an emotional letdown as the school dealt with the tragedy of the plane crash. If any team deserves a mulligan, it is Okie St.
I don’t think it’s very hard to vault OSU ahead of Bama even without thinking about BCS chaos.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
with the defense that OSU has this year
having the faith that they will beat any other team is never a done deal.
"I solemnly swear to tell the truth as I know it, the whole truth as I believe it to be, and nothing but what I think you need to know."
Baylor's D is worse than OSU's
And they slowed down OU.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
As Herbstreet said last night
if Alabama beats Auburn 2-0, Alabama will finish no lower than #2 in the BCS. That is a near lock, no matter what happens.
Herbstreit also said Florida had no business being in the 2006 national championship game
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
and when was Herbstreit the genius of college football?
"I solemnly swear to tell the truth as I know it, the whole truth as I believe it to be, and nothing but what I think you need to know."
Okie St = Overrated
Admitting up front that as a Bama fan I have a dog in the fight and am somewhat biased, the notion that OSU is a good team or has a good resume is a joke. They haven’t played anyone even as good as Penn State, let alone Arkansas. Their best win is probably a nail biter against a VERY mediocre Kansas State team. They needed a miracle comeback to beat aTm, but aTm hands those out like candy at Halloween—everybody gets one. Their out of conference schedule is softer than a baby’s butt. The notion that the Big 12-ish is a strong conference is just silly, no matter what the computers say.
I do think that OSU will likely jump Bama if they beat OU…just don’t agree that they should. The anti-rematch feeling is pretty strong. Frankly even though Va Tech hasn’t played anybody either, I’d still rank them above OSU—at least they know how to play defense. And if somebody beside Bama is going to play LSU for the marbles, they would get my vote, even though they would probably get slaughtered.
I can’t say that Bama “deserves” another shot at LSU, but I think there’s a very good argument to be made that we are the #2 team in the country and the best of the one loss teams. So if the BCS really is about matching the #1 and #2 teams in the country, then it should be LSU-Bama for the title. (And yes, I recognize that this is both a break from precedent….2006…and somewhat unfair to the Tigers.) With all that said, I’m going to hold my nose and cheer for OU like crazy in two weeks.
Fortunately
you’ve been pretty consistently wrong about Arkansas all year.
So we got that going for us.
Which is nice.
Awww. c'mon girl.
your boys are getting skulldragged
call it karma for being the only fans I could find making jokes about Kragthorpe & Parkinson’s. But really, you can’t run and have to throw against the best defense in college and you have to stop LSU from running all over you. Not only is it not gonna happen, LSU is going to win going away.
nemo me impune lacessit
Don't get too self-righteous here.
Or I’ll pull out the tornado jokes from LSU fans.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell
Have I?
I picked a three-way tie for the division at 7-1 in the preseason. I went with Arkansas losing to LSU and beating Alabama, so I guess you could hold that against me if you really want to.
Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2
I have an idea.
Let’s wait until Friday around 6pm Central (I hope it doesn’t take more time than that). I hope that will take some of the guesswork out.
Better to die happy than to live miserably.
What's amazing to me is the bitching
for the past several years about the BCS and how the BCS never gets the best two teams in the National Championship game. Now, it appears, that the BCS may actually have the best two teams in the game and everyone is bitching about a rematch. And now, you are talking about Viginia? Seriously, does anyone in the effing nation think Virginia or OK State for that matter is the 2nd best team in the nation? Remember everyone wanting a playoff? Why do we want a playoff? So the two best teams play in the end. So now we have, what looks like, at this point, to be the two best teams and everyone is bitching whining and moaning that they don’t want a rematch. Good God what a fickle bunch.
No
People don’t want a playoff to have the best two teams play at the end. They want a playoff so that, flawed as a playoff system might be, the title of champion is determined by teams playing each other on the field rather than by lazy, irrational voters who may or may not watch more than one game a week (or any, in the case of some Harris Poll voters).
Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2
They want a playoff so that, flawed as a playoff system might be, the title of champion is determined by teams selected by lazy, irrational voters who may or may not watch more than one game a week (or any, in the case of some Harris Poll voters) playing each other on the field rather than by lazy, irrational voters who may or may not watch more than one game a week (or any, in the case of some Harris Poll voters).
Fixed that for you. (In good fun)
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
I get ya
And that’s why I want a basketball-style selection committee.
Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

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