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Would the SEC Respond to a Larger Big Ten?

In Sprints yesterday, cocknfire mentioned a story about how things are looking as though the process of Big Ten expansion is gaining steam. I've already thrown out my speculation on how the SEC might expand, but that was only in the extremely (and I mean extremely) unlikely event that someone left the conference.

I've also sacrificed many pixels to state my skepticism about the Big Ten's expansion prospects, but it appears as though things are indeed moving forward. If the Big Ten did blow right past 12 members and go up to 14 or 16 members, would the SEC react? Here are the main rationales to the positive and what might stand in their way.

The SEC must keep up.

Keep up with what? The SEC was the originator of the big conference plan in the modern era, being the first to expand to 12 teams. Things have worked brilliantly ever since.

"Keeping up" is an awful reason to expand. Only two conferences have gone past 12 members recently. The WAC went to 16 in the '90s and imploded shortly thereafter. The MAC expanded to 13 by adding Temple when it was kicked from the Big East, but that's presented scheduling issues. The existing test cases for football conferences larger than 12 members are not promising.

Let's also remember that no one has even pulled off the 12-member conference as well as the SEC has. The Big 12 is plagued by the fact that the South division has dominated the North for much of the decade, and the ACC can't even give tickets away to its championship game. The SEC meanwhile has two balanced divisions, the perfect championship game locale, and the majority of its traditional games intact. No one else can boast that, and expanding beyond its current state disrupts it.

Money, of course.

The SEC just signed an absurdly rich, 15-year contract with ESPN. It was negotiated before the real extent of the current recession was known. Expansion might give the conference the opportunity to renegotiate, but could it be sure that it would get the same money per school now as the recession has deepened?

The Big Ten has to look at expanding because it runs the Big Ten Network. The only way for that baby to grow significantly is to add new markets. The SEC owns no network, so it is under no such pressures for expansion.

Prestige!

Did you miss the tag line of this site? "SEC Football: Home to the last four national championships. And counting." Fans from around the country rate the SEC as having both the highest quality and the most enjoyable brand of football, and it's not even close. The conference has the best and highest paid collection of coaches in the nation.

In short, the SEC is at the top of college football. Inflating the Big Ten with any number of the rumored candidates (Pitt, Missouri, UConn, Rutgers, Syracuse, etc.) will not change that. It might come close if it adds both Notre Dame and Nebraska somehow, but the Irish's stock has never (and I mean pretty much never) been lower.

So nothing, huh?

Yeah. The response will be to wait and see. The SEC has dollars and goodwill in spades. It doesn't need to act. The Big Ten wants to act precisely because it's not where the SEC is at right now.

Besides, if the superconference Armageddon comes and everyone starts scrambling for corners, the SEC is in fine shape. Teams will be running to it, not from it. With Big 12 South refugees in the west and ACC and Big East defectors in the east as possibilities, the SEC will have more applicants than openings.

Prudence will require Mike Slive and the league office to look into expansion possibilities to be prepared if the time ever comes. A knee jerk reaction to whatever the Rust Belt Conference does won't be in the cards though,

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I agree.

I’d rather see a nimble SEC continue to run circles around an expanded Big-10+ instead of a bloated super-SEC struggling to maintain its identity after a Texas/Oklahoma/FSU influx (Clemson would fit in, but I digress).

"In case you're wondering what the offense should look like, that wasn't it." - Urban Meyer

by cantcatchuf on Apr 20, 2010 10:15 AM EDT reply actions  

As a Big 10 fan...

I do not want to see the conference expand to 16 or 14 for that matter.

They simply need to add one team, create divisions and have a Championship game.

Also, you shouldn’t underestimate how much the Big 10 schools make from the BTN. It is way more than the SEC makes from ESPN. For example, Indiana’s football program makes more money from TV than Notre Dame’s.

by devidee33 on Apr 20, 2010 10:55 AM EDT reply actions  

Oh I know that the Big Ten Network is extremely lucrative. It’s not “way more” than what the SEC makes from ESPN just yet, but it has the potential to be somewhere in the future. That’s really what the Big Ten expansion talk is about. Not academics, not athletics, but expanding the BTN.

Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog

by Year2 on Apr 20, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes...

it is much more than SEC….it’s not even close really. Plus the SEC is beholden to the whims of ESPN. The Big 10 schools have an ownership stake in the network. That is huge.

by devidee33 on Apr 20, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

By "beholden to ESPN"

I guess you mean every conference game televised nationally?

Admittedly, it was a deal with the devil, but the devil gets these games into recruits’ homes, and the brand out there to HS coaches and players. It’s not purely about the money, but about the recruiting edge that the average SEC school enjoys over other conferences. That recruiting edge obviously pays off with the prize that all 120 teams covet: The crystal trophy. In that respect, it’s awfully hard to argue with 5 of the last 6 titles that have been won by three separate SEC schools.

I’m of the opinion that Y2 (to some extent) and cancatchuf (explicitly) express: a streamlined, quality league will outperform a competitor who hopes to achieve similar results through quantity alone. I simply do not see how adding 5 mediocrities, to a league already plagued by mediocrity, is going to be a “win” for the Rust Belt league.

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 20, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's a good point...

about the exposure the ESPN contract offers. I was mainly talking about the money and how it is set whereas with the BTN, Big 10 schools can potentially make much more as it grows and expands.

I’m not really into the whole conference war thing. It’s silly. Unless your school wins a championship it doesn’t really matter. Is South Carolina a good team because Bama won the NC. Or are they just a team that loses to UCONN?

by devidee33 on Apr 20, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

So.Car. is the eternal enigma...

No matter how much or little talent the Gamecocks have (and it varies), you can pencil in the following (over the last decade):
A) 6-8 regular season wins, usually with a hot start, followed by an absolute desultory finish
B) the conference opener against UGA will be close, fiercely contested, and usually unwatchable.
C) So.Car will, in all probability, lose its bowl game, no matter how poor the opponent (Lou Holtz was a deviation from this rule.

Back to your point (and sort of my point), and it’s not a conference thing, it’s legitimate question: How does bringing in Syracuse or UConn or Pitt or Mizzou benefit the league, football-wise? Sure, it makes more money and is in more households, but it’s still a regional base of support, and really does nothing to address the recruiting needed in the Sun Belt, TX and Cali.

Also, with those teams (and ND), does the product become more watchable? Minnesota v. UConn for instance? Or Northwestern v. Syracuse? I don’t think those are marquee games that people are lining up for. Sure, there are some interesting ones: Mizzou v. Michigan comes to mind, as does PSU v. Pitt, but adding four (largely and historically) mediocre-to-average teams, simply to establish a megaconference that has little-to-no historical/cultural affinity seems pennywise, pound-foolish.

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 20, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does anyone care...

when UK plays SCAR…or Miss St plays Vandy…or Ole Miss plays Arkansas. Those games are equally unwatchable.

Again, I think one team should be added simply to make divisions and have a championship game.

To me, Mizzou is the best fit (ND is not happening). They would add a new market for the BTN and fit academically. Also, they have a natural rival with Illinois.

I’m not sure the recruiting is as bad as you believe. The Big 10 is still putting a ton of talent in the NFL (the past 2 Superbowl MVPs are Big 10 guys).

Plus a Big 10 team beats an SEC team every single year.

by devidee33 on Apr 20, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mizzou is the natural choice

1. landlocked, but with a major water source/navigable waterway? Check
2. can they bring a major television market? Two of them.
3. can they bring a modicum of success and be bowl eligible? yes, and like the B10, big emphasis on basketball, as well.
4. Culturally, it’s all over the map, with some urban areas, some seriously redneck areas, and some midwestern-type areas (especially in that NW corner and on the Illinois line).
5. Academically they are eligible, though not in the same league as say a Minnesota.
6. Disgruntled and would snap up the offer? In a heartbeat; the B12 is dominated by Texas and texan pols…and, frankly, a commissioner who doesn’t give too much of a damned about anyone not named Texas, Oklahoma or Nebraska.

The only downside is losing the historic rivalry with KU, but, at this point, I think they’d be foolish to not go. If that happens, that I think we need to set our eyes on Clemson…

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 20, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Plus a Big 10 team beats an SEC team every single year."

Well that’s good because 3 SEC teams beat 3 Big 10 teams every single year… blah blah blah. I thought you weren’t trying to get into the whole conference war thing? :)

Seriously though… I’m no expert on TV deals, but intuitively, it would seem having a guaranteed sum from ESPN is a good thing when times are bad. The BTN’s revenue can fluctuate according to the whims of consumers. If times are bad, the SEC still gets paid. The BTN makes less. Of course, the opposite is true too. In good times, the SEC has a ceiling to TV revenue set exactly at what ESPN and CBS pay each year whereas the BTN has a much higher ceiling. Again, not sure if it works like that exactly, but it makes sense to me.

by marktheshark on Apr 20, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually...

the Big 10 wins one and the SEC wins one…basically every year. I was simply pointing out that the recruiting gap is not as large as one might think. Hell, if Northwestern’s kicker could make a 30 yarder the SEC would have went 0-2 against the Big 10 last year.

You miss the point about the BTN. ESPN is already maxed out in markets. The BTN is not. It’s still in its infancy really. I also don’t believe it’s just a regional network. Ohio State has one of the largest alumni basis of any school and they are spread out all of the nation. The Big 10 attracts students from all over the country (and world) because of superior academics. Those students typically move back home after they graduate.

by devidee33 on Apr 20, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not sure where you got your figures. Big Ten teams got $8 million each from the BTN last year. The SEC schools get an average of $12.5 million a year from ESPN.

Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog

by Year2 on Apr 20, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Big 10...

made 242 million from TV revenue last year….22 million to each school.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/355218-when-notre-dame-said-no-did-they-underestimate-big-ten-network

Again, the BTN isn’t stagnate. The SEC won’t make more that 12.5 mil from ESPN. The BTN number is growing year in and year out.

by devidee33 on Apr 20, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

stats dont compare

that article lists B10 TV revenue as a whole, not just BTN revenue. I’m not saying your wrong, just using the wrong stats.

Managing Editor/Chief Lackey-And The Valley Shook

by PodKATT on Apr 20, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

No...

you are absolutely correct. I was looking at the total as opposed to just the BTN. However, I’d still say that the fact that the BTN number can (and will) go up every year is huge.

by devidee33 on Apr 20, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

i live in nevada and i get espn, espn2, espnu, classic espn.

i don’t get the btn. espn is nationwide. how far does the btn go out west? i’ll bet the cutoff is either kansas or colorado.

I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood". Hell is just a word, the reality is much much worse." Event Horizon". Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean, I mean plumb, mad dog mean. cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live or win. That's just the way it is. "The Outlaw Josey Wales".

by wolfmanshowlforever on Apr 20, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

The BTN only on expanded basic cable within the footprint of the conference. You have to get a premium package to get it anywhere else.

It’s also available nationwide on a not unreasonable tier of DirecTV, but I believe the conference gets far more per subscriber within the footprint than outside it.

Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog

by Year2 on Apr 20, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Premium package meaning costing me how much more if i was interested

and i’m not?. Nothing against the big ten but i can see all their best games for free in the casino’s. Use california as the premium package user (in terms of how much more money would i have to shell out) b/c people in nevada expect everything for free sportswise. We are spoiled out here.

I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood". Hell is just a word, the reality is much much worse." Event Horizon". Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean, I mean plumb, mad dog mean. cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live or win. That's just the way it is. "The Outlaw Josey Wales".

by wolfmanshowlforever on Apr 20, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly...

there is a ton of growth potential for the BTN. Where it’s at financially right now is only the tip of the iceberg.

by devidee33 on Apr 20, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

"i live in nevada"

So you get The mtn.? Off topic question: would you rate it better or worse than JP/LF/Raycom as far as broadcasts go? I’ve always wondered.

Managing Editor/Chief Lackey-And The Valley Shook

by PodKATT on Apr 21, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I personally don't get the mtn but i get versus which shows mwc and big 12 college football

The large casino’s get everything b/c college football betting is a huge business/industry for them. Your jp/lf/raycom shows acc games as well as sec games i think? Or am i getting it mix up with another network? You have to understand their are 40 hd tv’s on at all-times during the season so i can’t remember all the cable outlets that they come from. I can tell you they televise some sunbelt games between each other so they pretty much have everyone covered.

I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood". Hell is just a word, the reality is much much worse." Event Horizon". Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean, I mean plumb, mad dog mean. cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live or win. That's just the way it is. "The Outlaw Josey Wales".

by wolfmanshowlforever on Apr 21, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will say this about an sec commentator who i think is todd blackledge?

I think he is part of the cbs crew that does sec games. He is quite biased as is mark may of espn. They don’t have much respect for any conference except the top four of them in their opinions. I mean mark may just smirks when he mentions the mwc teams. What is funny is utah opens the season vs pitt in salt lake city. pitt is going to start a qb with no ncaa experience at 4700 feet. utah is loaded on offense and always fields a decent defense. Trust me utah will roll right over pitt (mark may’s old school) and i hope he has to say the score live on espn with a sour face. If i got Todd B. wrong, it might be another guy i take it away but i’m almost positive it is him.

I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood". Hell is just a word, the reality is much much worse." Event Horizon". Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean, I mean plumb, mad dog mean. cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live or win. That's just the way it is. "The Outlaw Josey Wales".

by wolfmanshowlforever on Apr 21, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Big 10 should only expand by 1 school and go to 12 teams

That school should be Nebraska. It has a great history, looks to be on the upswing, fits in geographically and culturally, and would make splitting into geographic divisions fairly easy.

They’d be natural rivals with Wisconsin and Iowa for the Big Ten West.

It’d be a powerful first step that could eventually lead to further expansion to 14 or 16.

by HawkeyeRecon on Apr 22, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see an SEC expansion.

Don’t care for one, either. We’ve got it setup to play your entire division, and half of the opposing division on a rotating basis, while still having schedule space for 4 non-cons (which is ideal for scheduling marquee matchups with other Big Six school… and admittedly, a few scrubs to pad the schedule). You start adding teams, something will have to give.

by dxf04 on Apr 20, 2010 11:08 AM EDT reply actions  

I agree.

12 is the way to go. The only thing the SEC could possibly do to become more competitive would be replacing schools, and boy wouldn’t that be a cluster####.

by OxfordAndrew on Apr 20, 2010 11:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Arkansas is the natural chopping block victim

They add nothing to the conference (in the way of TV$$), they have a solid football history, but that is in the Redneck Southwest (Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri), and not really in the SEC. They do bring an historically good basketball and baseball presence, but Clemson can fill the diamond slot, while Texas is just good at everything. Also, it’s the most remote location from any of the other SEC schools. Clemson (which I believe to be the natural fit) is within spitting distance of several schools.

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 20, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I doubt that USC will ever let Clemson join the SEC...

unless they do it as part of a much larger expansion. Of course, Carolina doesn’t carry a whole lot of sway within the league, I’d imagine, so when push comes to shove I suppose we’d probably get shoved.

Dum spiro spero - "While I breathe, I hope"
State motto of South Carolina

by The Feathered Warrior on Apr 20, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe...Sorensen has a lot of sway...

How many men do you know that can bully Gene Stallings?

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 20, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, your legislature would make you!

(So. Car. St. anyone?)

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 20, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

No need to worry about replacing Arkansas.

We’re not going anywhere.
Texas joining the SEC makes more sense than them joining the Big 10, but not much, especially with the way people complain about the distance to Fayetteville.

by dxf04 on Apr 20, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I personally like playing Ark

As goes the Ark/Bama game, so goes the rest of the season…It’s both teams barometer game. And, in almost 20 years, there have been some very very good games (and a lot of bad blood as a result…e.g., the “food poisoning” in the 42-6 route, the willingness of both teams to run it up of given the chance, the 2007 insanity game, the 17-16 phantom “holding” game, etc).

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 20, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, given my current geographic predicament

(Omaha), I like knowing that it’s a short 6 hour drive to Fayetteville.

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 20, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope I didn't come off as rude.

As an Arkansas fan, I can assure you that none of us have any desire to rejoin any conference that looks like the old SWC. We’ll get a little prickly when someone suggests kicking us out, too, of course. Mostly because we like it here, but also because it almost seems like the attitude is that we’re not good enough for the SEC, even though we’ve proven time and again that we’re competitive in the league. We’ve been in the league for less than 20 years and we still have more conference championships in men’s sports than “established” SEC teams like Auburn, Kentucky, both Mississippi’s, Vandy… and Alabama. Granted, most of that comes from track and field, but still. For a little numerical comparison, SC has won 8 in that same time period, compared to Arkansas’ 72.
That being said, I too am very anxious for this year’s game against ’Bama.

by dxf04 on Apr 20, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just hard to gin up hatred

The manufactured rivalry with Arkansas just doesn’t work for me. I want to beat the Hogs, but I don’t live and die by that game. I actually sort of like the Hogs when we aren’t playing them.

But I don’t think anyone should have to apologize for getting ticked by people constantly suggesting to kick their team out of the SEC. It’s not like Arkansas has not been a quality addition. Even if we only consider football. Arkansas has more than held up their end of the deal.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Apr 20, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pretty much agreed.

Worse is the SEC-manufactured rivalry with South Carolina; I really don’t think either team is excited about playing each other EVERY SINGLE YEAR. We pretty much have our own “one-sided” rivalries with everyone in the conference. The only way to change the one-sided-ness is to start beating the LSU’s, ’Bama’s, and Auburn’s on a regular basis. That hasn’t happened yet, but maybe some day.

by dxf04 on Apr 20, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great comment
Even if we only consider football. Arkansas has more than held up their end of the deal.

Can we pass this memo along to Ole Miss?

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 20, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

What does that mean?

Arkansas has been a quality program since joining the SEC. I don’t think any rational Ole Miss fans would disagree with that.

by OxfordAndrew on Apr 21, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was talking about Ole Miss not getting to ATL

when even State and Ark have made it…it’s the offseason…we’re bored.

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 21, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah...

I didn’t get that at all.

Ole Miss has been unlucky in that the years we were good enough to go to ATL there has been one team in the West that was just that much better. For the most part, though, Ole Miss has simply been remarkably mediocre and remarkably poorly coached since the championship game started up in 1992.

by OxfordAndrew on Apr 21, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't get these rumors

Why are people talking about expansion into Texas or Oklahoma? They are neither in the South (culturally) or East (geographically). Wouldn’t it make more sense to steal VT or UVA (Richmond was the Capital of the Confederacy)? I would prefer VT to maintain the prestige of my beloved SEC, but would rather take UVA than just take a school that is culturally unaligned with the rest of the conference. In that vein, why is no one talking about UNC, Duke, or NC State? Although all of them are very entrenched in the ACC, I think the lure of SEC riches would turn heads. (I’m ignoring Miami and FSU from expansion because I enjoy the ACC-SEC competition between the Gators and the rest of Florida.) Regardless of who we’re looking at, I just feel that there are plenty of great teams who are actually in the South that should be considered for expansion long before we resort to bringing in rich, successful teams that aren’t in the SEC for a reason.

by GeorgiaGator on Apr 20, 2010 12:05 PM EDT reply actions  

$$$$$

That’s why. The only real reason behind b10 expansion is to get the BTN into more homes (because Delaney has it in his head that he’s a network executive instead of a conference commish, and no, i don’t know why either).

The Texas talk is along the same lines. If we can all just agree that it’s all about the money (and frankly i’m ok with that if everyone would just admit it.) then Texas is a stellar choice. The benefit of revenue from the Houston and Dallas markets make it more than a good idea, even if we are forced to bring in the Aggies as well.

VT and/or UVA might be a good grab to get the DC metro area, but it feels like the B10/Rutgers/NY problem (i.e. they dont watch college football anyway). Clemson feels like an SEC school, but USC already grabs the small SC TV markets.

UNC and Duke only work if we dont play football, because the only benefactor from TV revenues in basketball is the NCAA it’s self.

AD’s, Chancellors, and Mike Slive aren’t interested in expanding with schools that fit the culture, they want schools that help keep everyone awash with cash. And that’s not evil, it’s just good business.

Managing Editor/Chief Lackey-And The Valley Shook

by PodKATT on Apr 20, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would think that adding aTm would make y'all happy...

You already recruit the same area, and there is a not-so-pleasant history between the schools…Why not take the opportunity to thrash the fake militia on a yearly basis?

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 20, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

aTm

I’d love to have A&M in the SEC, or at the very least, playing LSU every year again. LSU lacks a real traditional rival, but A&M-LSU is actually a natural rivalry (admittedly, A&M hates Texas, but Texas hates OU instead, only making the Aggies hate Texas more). LSU has more in common with A&M, culturally, than most SEC schools. It would never happen and its probably not in the SEC’s best interest, but it would be great for me.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Apr 20, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't admit that...
LSU has more in common with A&M, culturally, than most SEC schools.

A&M is the most uptight place I’ve ever seen in my life, and College Station is a dustblown hellhole suburb outside of the most humid hellhole on earth. Whereas BR, and the campus, is charming, laid-back and values things like food, women, fun…

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 20, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

College Station does suck...

…. but I live in Texas and find I have more in common with A&M grads than Texas grads. Both ag schools, football crazed but went through an awful fallow period, huge ROTC programs, unique cultural identities…

… but yeah, CS and BR are nothing alike. And our food is so much better its not even worth talking about. Same with the women.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Apr 20, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know several UT grads...

They remind of a cross between Michigan alums (intellectual pretense all over the place) and Ole Miss (monetary pretense)…or, as my mom would say “puttin’ on airs”.

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 20, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

About right...

… throw in some UGa-like “hippies” to balance out the OM types and you’ve pretty much got UT nailed. Though Athens’ music scene still gets a lifetime pass for REM.

Though Austin is a blast, I get pretty tired of it after a weekend. UT is like the Michigan of the south, right down to the quietest 100,000 people you’ve ever seen each Saturday. Still, worth the visit.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Apr 20, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to jump all over one comment or anything, but if your idea of UGA students/alums is one of “hippies” then you must never have actually been to Athens, let alone Georgia. Athens is a “bohemian” town, but UGA students and alums are mostly white, upper-middle class prep school kids; the hippies you refer to are townies, bot to be confused with having any actual ties to the university.

by ugadawg950 on Apr 22, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we'd all jump at the chance to replace Arkansas

with Texas, don’t you? Great academics, athletics and an international brand…

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 20, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Texas sounds great in theory...

But if you hate traveling to Fayetteville for games, you’re really going to hate traveling to Austin. God forbid you should try to drive. Plus, I don’t ever see Texas wanting to join the SEC. They’re big shots right now. I don’t foresee the Longhorns lining up to play second fiddle to the SEC’s Florida, UGA, and ‘Bama. They also don’t have a single natural rival within the SEC. After a decade, they would basically be Arkansas with a more illustrious history. The SEC and Texas don’t really have anything to offer each other.

Dum spiro spero - "While I breathe, I hope"
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by The Feathered Warrior on Apr 20, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I personally want to keep it at 12, but

if the SEC aims for pie in the sky, you gotta’ think the ‘Horns are on the shortlist. Clemson makes much more sense, or FSU, but I think we’d have some quiet negotiations with the boys in Austin, don’t you?

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 20, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think the SEC expands

But of course I’d want Texas. Getting A&M would get the SEC some of the Texas TV markets and A&M would probably love stickin’ it to the Horns. Still, pretty unlikely. Clemson would be the obvious choice, followed by VT or FSU.

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by Poseur on Apr 20, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

If expansion time ever comes, the SEC will call Texas if only to hear it say no.

It would take a whole lot for Texas to leave the Big 12. It already makes more money than anyone else, and it pretty much runs the conference along with Nebraska and Oklahoma. Even if the Big Ten takes Mizzou and Nebraska and the Pac-10 takes Colorado, the conference could bring in TCU, Utah, and BYU and probably still be in good enough shape to keep the ‘Horns. If you’re in a conference where only Oklahoma (in a post-Nebraska world) wields as much power, why go jump in with a conference like the SEC where Alabama, Florida, Georgia, LSU, and Auburn all would be close in power and influence?

If the conference goes to 14, the obvious candidates are Clemson, FSU, and Virginia Tech. If it’s 16, throw in West Virginia with those three and call it a day. Texas is a pipe dream, and if it’s going anywhere, it’s to the Pac-10 where there’s less competition for being the top dog.

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by Year2 on Apr 20, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I agree.

When considering if Texas would wan to come to the SEC, ask yourself what Alabama’s motivations would be for jumping to the Big 12. Few and far between. I think some of us are at least a little blinded by SEC homerism (understandable, though it is).

Also, home come no one is mentioning Georgia Tech. They have a pretty strong athletic history as well as historical rivalries with Auburn and UGA?

Dum spiro spero - "While I breathe, I hope"
State motto of South Carolina

by The Feathered Warrior on Apr 20, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

if you've read

the Mayor’s stuff, suffice it to say that “cold day in hell” would happen before UGA would ever let the Jackets back in…And Alabama is still frosty…and Auburn despises them as well. Too much institutional backlash, from too many institutions, for that to happen.

On the plus side, at least Vandy would have someone to play chess with, though.

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 20, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

As I understand it, there was a lot of bad blood associated with Georgia Tech’s exit from the SEC back in the day. And even though money heals a lot of wounds, GT doesn’t exactly bring a whole lot. UGA already covers the Atlanta market, and it doesn’t exactly have a huge national fan base.

Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog

by Year2 on Apr 21, 2010 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I mean

This may come off wrong, but as a Georgia fan, I don’t see what adding them gets the SEC. We recognize its all about MONEY, and adding them (or truthfully, Clemson) doesn’t bring in anything that isn’t already there. At least Miami/FSU adds parts of Florida not currently UF-centric (Miami, admittedly less so). I can see the benefit of Texas, but doubt it’s possible. A Virginia Tech/VA pairing might help, but then Tennessee/Vandy/~Kentucky would need to shift on over to the SEC West for good (see the Mayor’s discussion on internal realignment for this topic).

by blackertai on Apr 21, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

The SEC has a very solid national reputation, and because it doesn’t own a TV network, it doesn’t have to worry about expanding the footprint.

Any SEC expansion will largely be about adding value while not messing things up. That’s why people throw around the phrase “cultural fit” a lot. Clemson, VT, FSU, and West Virginia all fall into the category of adding value and a cultural fit, so that’s why their names get thrown around the most.

A point of clarification though. If you’re talking about TV sets, UF has the whole state covered. Every major metropolitan area has a lot of Gator graduates living there, and everywhere that could be described as “FSU centric” has Florida as the clear No. 2 interest.

Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog

by Year2 on Apr 21, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Texas...

is also one of the few programs that could actually go it alone and be fine. Texas has enough clout to simply be independent. Texas brings more to any conference out there (SEC included) than any conference could bring to it.

by devidee33 on Apr 20, 2010 8:21 PM EDT reply actions  

True. Texas is where ND thinks it is...

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 20, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its things like this

That must just rile the hell out of Oklahoma fans. I mean, with the amount of hate directed South from Norman, recognition that UT can stand alone and OU can’t would just burn.

by blackertai on Apr 21, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really think

Expansion would have to coincide with some sort of TV contract extension. Or, I would hope it would anyway.

If the league were going to allow more hands into the pot, they’d be wise to secure a larger pot first.

by Billy Gomila on Apr 20, 2010 11:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Right

You’d have to convince ESPN to tear up the current deal and renegotiate in order to make an expanded SEC work.

Team Speed Kills
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by Year2 on Apr 21, 2010 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Huge rumor...

floating around today on tOSU blogs about expansion.

Basically it’s says that the B10 will expand to 16 and Texas, A&M and ND are all included. With the other two being Mizzou and Nebraska. Essentially its ND and a pillage of the Big 12. This is supposedly from an A&M insider.

(I don’t think there’s anyway in hell this happens)

by devidee33 on Apr 21, 2010 11:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Nonsense

The only way Notre Dame gives up and joins the Big Ten is if the Big East implodes or kicks out ND’s non-football sports. If the Big East remains intact, there’s little motivation for the Irish to join a conference since it believes football independence is its highest athletic priority.

Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog

by Year2 on Apr 21, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not going to happen.

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 21, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just curious, which blogs?

I looked at Block O, Men of Scarlet and Gray and 11 Warriors…any others of note? I want to get their take on it.

"Hush now, let it go now. I know it's time to go. Time to let this fall from my hands" VNV Nation, "From My Hands"

by Stuck in the Plains on Apr 21, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really...

a blog I guess. I saw it on Bucknuts. There’s a thread on the free forum that you can find. I believe the title is Deep in the heart of Texas part II…or something like that.

by devidee33 on Apr 21, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha.

That’s all I’ve got to say about that.

by blackertai on Apr 21, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

That'd be retarded business practices on ND's part

When they have their own TV deal. Why split something with 15 other teams?

Notre Dame’s not joining a conference so long as they have that NBC deal.

by Billy Gomila on Apr 21, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

The NBC deal..

is small potatoes compared to the BTN deal. Again, Indiana makes more than ND.

by devidee33 on Apr 21, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's an excellent article...

on Big 10 expansion.

I forgt about the B10’s deal with ABC as well.

In total the Big10 makes 22 million per team.

The SEC makes 15-17 million per team.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/stewart_mandel/04/20/expansion-faqs/index.html?eref=sihp#

by devidee33 on Apr 22, 2010 9:21 AM EDT reply actions  

I don’t think the SEC is bothered by those numbers; it’s the total distribution that matters most and the SEC has been way ahead of the game for well over a decade now. Georgia, Texas, UCLA, and Notre Dame are the richest athletic departments in the nation, and with Florida, LSU, and Tennessee all near the top as well, it doesn’t make sense for the SEC to be overly concerned with expansion. That being said, I agree with you that the Big 10 should only add 1 team, and I think Missouri would be the best fit.

by ugadawg950 on Apr 22, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

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