SEC 2009 // Elephants Answering Questions About Alabama Football
by cocknfire on Aug 7, 2009 10:30 AM EDT
in Football
10 comments
While we might not always see eye to eye about some things -- as you will witness soon enough -- Roll Bama Roll is one of the better blogs out there about any team in the SEC. Unabashedly pro-Alabama and sprinkled throughout with photos of dictatorily appointed site sweethearts and Gospel YouTubes, it is also its own kind of sports blog. As part of Alabama week, RBR answered a few questions for us.
Greg McElroy. Discuss.
What to say about young McElroy...I guess we can start with the basics. A native of Southlake, TX, McElroy came to Tuscaloosa after originally comitting to to Texas Tech, but the Tide's victory over the Raiders in the 2006 Cotton Bowl swayed him our way. After redshirting his freshman season, McElroy waited behind John Parker Wilson to assume the reigns, and has seemed poised and ready to do so since spring camp. He's drawn favorable reviews from the coaches and his teammates, and talks and acts like he's the leader of the team. He isn't going to blow you away with his arm and pass it 60 times a game, but word is he knows the playbook and offense inside out and, even though he can make all the throws he needs to, his greatest strength is being able to read the opposing defense and know which throws to make. Saban has favorably compared him to Matt Mauck, who won him a national title at LSU despite being a dubious passer at best. The two biggest keys to success for McElroy will be whether or not the offensive line can stay healthy and function as a single, cohesive unit all season long, and if the ground game can be as ferocious as it was last year.
First, last year's o-line was the best Alabama has fielded this century, and the biggest reason they were so dominant wasn't necessarily that they were the most talented. Sure, Andre Smith was an All-American and Antoine Caldwell was All-SEC, but Marlon Davis, Drew Davis, and Mike Johnson weren't overly special or supremely talented. All they did was work their asses off, do their jobs, and manage to stay healthy (for the most part) the entire season. Off the top of my head I can't remember a Crimson Tide offensive line that managed to take just about every significant snap from the spring game to the end of the season in the same grouping and positions like last year's did. The two games they didn't play in that particular grouping (against Tulane and Utah)? Worst offensive performances of the season. We have plenty of talent and competition for the starting five, but the group that comprised the first team on A-Day is likely the one that will open against Va. Tech (with maybe one D.J. Fluker shaped shift), and if they can stay in that grouping and remain healthy all year, they should be just as solid as last season's bunch. Second, with Mark Ingram back, Roy Upchurch finally healthy, and Trent Richardson (who many think is even better than Ingram) on campus and ready to go, the ground game shouldn't experience any drop off in production either. Given all that, the nature of our offense (more pro-style and straightforward than anything the rest of the SEC is running, save Spurrier), and OC Jim McElwain's stellar track record of developing QBs, there is plenty of reason to believe McElroy can be successful right away.
The defense this year looks to be absolutely ferocious, while the offense is in flux to say the least. Is this going to be a 1992-style year, where Alabama has to win on defense and (essentially) defense alone?
I don't really think so. Youth and inexperience aside, the offense arguably has more raw talent than last year's unit and has a number of playmakers at wide receiver that have shown a lot of flash and promise over the past two seasons. If they can step up/stay healthy/be more consistent/etc., then we should actually be able to cash in on some of that explosiveness and be an even better unit. Remember, despite a non-flashy run oriented attack Alabama finished at or near the top of every significant offensive category in the SEC last season. Just duplicating that is entirely within reason, and if we can get some better production out of the receiving corps and are able to utiliize Julio Jones in more ways than we were last year then the offense has the makings of a very dominant unit.
Whom are you more worried about in the SEC West: LSU or Ole Miss?
That's actually a pretty tough question. I'm not buying the top ten hype of Ole Miss and doubt they win the west, but at the same time they will be a good team that is going to win a lot of games and make it to a good bowl again. More than that, of the last five Tide victories in this series only one was by more than a single score (a 28-7 win in 2004) so even during the Orgeron years we were barely scraping by the Rebels (though, to be fair, most of those were also "Shula" years...). Meanwhile, simply having John Chavis running the defense should completely help LSU turn a big corner this season. They had the talent to be a solid unit last year, yet their two headed DC was clearly in way over it's heads and they should get the same boost Ole Miss did last season, namely improving on the field simply through increased competence on the sidelines. So yeah, that's kind of a toss up. I'd say I'm more worried about the overall SEC West than any particular team. Arkansas should be this year's Ole Miss; they have a competent QB now, one of the best RBs in the league in Michael Smith, one of the best pass catching TEs in D.J. Williams, and return the entire front seven on a defense that can only go up. Say what you will about Petrino, he's an excellent coach and he'll rain on someone's parade this season, and just having that one extra team that's a threat week in and week out could throw the whole division into chaos by season's end.
What's the goal this year? Atlanta or bust? Pasadena or bust?
First, you can't talk Pasadena without talking Atlanta, so "Pasadena or bust" is just putting the cart before the horse. Second, just making it to Atlanta isn't enough; we started out 12-0 last year, but the two game skid to end the season pretty much put "bust" on the season no matter how awesome the start was. I'd say the goal is "hold a significant trophy over our heads or bust," with that significant trophy either comign from the SEC Championship or, at the very least, a New Year's Day bowl.
Is there anything we've said this week that you feel the need to debate or correct?
You mean beyond the several (and wholly unimaginative) "Bammers don't know Bear is dead" gibes?
C&F: A moment for a response, because this has come up over and over again over the course of this week. There were not "several' of these jokes -- there were two. One of those was a Sprints item about a Roll Bama Roll review of a book about Alabama after Bear's death. And I wonder if Todd wrote this answer at about the same time kleph put the finishing touches on his post about the author of a play about Bear Bryant, which meant there were as many posts about Bear-related literature on RBR this week as there were jokes on this site about Bama fans being unable to accept Bear's death. This site is meant to be irreverent; we have fun at the expense of all programs and all fan bases. And unless we do something in poor taste -- for example, I will not post the Bear carcass photo, which I find repugnant -- we will make no apologies. (Or at least I won't. And since I was the one who made the jokes, I doubt Year2 is going to be offering any mea culpas.) We now return you to your regularly scheduled Q&A.
Not really, though I do think you probably overestimate the effect of Brandon Fanney's transfer on the front seven. Yes, he was a starter at Jack last year and a stat line that reads 66 tackles (2nd among returning LBs and first among the D-Line) isn't always production one relishes losing, but at the same time (as our own OTS was quick to point out) only 26 of those were solo while the rest were a function of the entire front seven collapsing a play and Fanney getting credit for half a tackle when all he really did was jump on the pile. Further, he was an absolute non-factor where the pass rush was concerned and getting to the QB is a big point of emphasis for this year's defense. Not being able to effectively rush the passer really came back to haunt us during the two game skid that ended the season, and it isn't like losing Fanney off the edge is suddenly going to make us a bad pass rushing team. In fact, with Dont'a Hightower working at Jack during the spring (and Courteney Upshaw showing promise as a pass rusher from the Jack as well), it may have actually opened the door for a better athlete to move into his place and actually make the front seven that much better.
Again, check out Roll Bama Roll during the season for Alabama news and analysis. Whether or not you've accepted Bear's death. Okay, so that's three now ...
MONDAY: Alabama Aims for Something Special
TUESDAY: Tuscaloosa Nights (and Days); Nick Saban Runs for Congress
WEDNESDAY: How About That Defense? We Also Have to Play Offense?
THURSDAY: Tomorrow's Tide
LATER TODAY: Nick Saban, Alabama and History
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first off, i am very appreciative of the support Speed Team Kills gives to not just Roll Bama Roll but to my posts on the site. i like to think the topics i have been covering are of interest beyond the Crimson Tide fanbase and the feedback here has been integral for my doing that. but since it is my contribution to the site that has come up as a point of contention here, i’d like to clarify a few things.
when i began writing regularly for Roll Bama Roll, it was clear that i don’t have the football acumen that Todd, Nico2.0 and OutsideTheSidelines possess. but Alabama football has a far larger presence than simply what relates to the games themselves and i’ve labored to seek these subjects out and write pieces on them whatever they happen to be. but, as you might expect, they have something to do with Coach Bryant quite often.
a good example is the Reading Room project you mentioned. i undertook the effort partially a means of creating a regular feature for the off season that had not been done a million times already. but i was very conscious that it is a way to cast some illumination into the history of the Alabama football program beyond the inevitable attention given to Coach Bryant’s role in it.
as much as we hold him in admiration, his presence often overshadows other coaches and eras that have been just as integral. thus i’ve sought out books on Wallace Wade, Frank Thomas and, slated for next week, Xen Scott. the Bama After Bear book is very much out of print but, given it is one of the few tomes to look at the turmoil in the program in the wake of Coach Bryant’s passing, it seemed ideal for my ulterior motive.
(and let’s be honest. there a lot of books out there on Coach Bryant and a lot of them suck. i’m doing a public service by wading through the chaff.)
as for my interview with Bear Country author Mike Vigilant, that was timed to coincide with the opening in the play in birmingham. again, i was less interested in the typical hooks to the story but how the author approached such a formidable subject particularly as an outsider. and i wanted to get his views on the football side of the play that would be of interest to our readers.
and i felt his effort to try and strip away the looming weight of legend and show Coach Bryant’s basic humanity is something that is incredibly important and undertaken far too little. take it from someone whose read quite a few fawning tomes about the the man.
by kleph on Aug 7, 2009 8:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't trying to attack your work or RBR through your work
And I hope it didn’t come across that way.
It just strikes me that what at least seems like the most complaints I’ve gotten in any one week about the jokes during our previews have been from Alabama fans. Which is fine, I guess, but it finally kind of got to me that I was being basically excused of being a closet Barner, etc., as I was on the way to putting Alabama at 11-1 and in the SEC Championship Game.
My basic point was that Alabama fans are able to write and talk about Bear as much as they want, but when the rest of the conference dare points out that they write and talk about Bear an awful lot, they say we’re being terribly unfair.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Aug 7, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i didn't think that for a second...
…but because the point was raised i simply wanted to clarify my position.
by kleph on Aug 7, 2009 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get the irreverence angle. Lord knows we do it plenty ourselves. But the reasons the constant “Bammers need to realize Bear is dead” jokes irk me to no end are these:
1. An increasing percentage of the fanbase either wasn’t alive or (like myself) was too young to have any knowledge of Bryant at the time of his death. None of us are sitting around pining for the Bryant days; we don’t even know them. We do, however, recognize that Bryant’s demand for excellence in football is all over the program and that honoring and upholding that tradition is important if the Crimson Tide is to continue on as a football power.
2. We also realize that, just because Bryant is dead, it doesn’t mean that we should stop expecting our team to be a power. Bryant didn’t build the Crimson Tide. Xen Scott set things in motion, while Wallace Wade, Frank Thomas, and Red Drew continued to build it into one of the most dominant programs in the history of the game. Bryant continued that tradition both as a player (he came to Alabama from his native Arkansas BECAUSE of that demand for excellence that Scott, Wade, and Thomas created) and as a coach. To say that we need to “accept his death” is tantamount to saying “Bryant is gone, you should give up football/stop acting like you deserve the kind of teams he coached.” I’ll note that in your other previews you didn’t tell Ole Miss fans that they need to realize John Vaught is dead, or the Georgia fans need to realize Vince Dooley is dead, or that Auburn fans need to realize Shug Jordan (and Pat Dye’s liver and/or brain) is dead. No other fanbase is routinely told (nearly three decades after the fact) that they need to get over a revered figure’s death for no reason. We aren’t all sitting around waiting for Bryant to rise from the grave and stalk the sidelines again; but we are expectant that any coach who does walk an Alabama sideline understands the standard of excellence that Bryant (and the other coaches before him) set and is willing to work towards those ends.
3. It’s just flat unoriginal. Make fun of the Utah loss, make fun of the ridiculous new age-y Sabanisms, make fun of the six game losing streak to Auburn or the even more embarrassing two game streak to Mississippi State if you like. It’s fresh, it’s ripe, it’s deserved. The Bryant thing? Damn near 30 years old at this point. If anyone needs to move on about it it’s everyone else.
4. We’re not saying you are being terribly unfair at pointing out that we “write and talk” about Bryant an awful lot, we are saying you are being terribly unfair to imply writing and talking about Bryant is ALL THAT WE DO. As I said, we recognize and honor the contributions to the program that Bryant made in order to continue on with the standards of excellence that are a hallmark of Crimson Tide football. You may think we are all living in the past, yet every fan I talk to is geeked up beyond belief about the future of the program and the success that is sure to follow now that Saban is in command. Just because we measure that success by a high benchmark that was set in the past doesn’t mean we live in it.
by Todd on Aug 8, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fair points -- a few rebuttals
1. Can’t really argue with that much beyond my quibbles with No. 2.
2. The program is not going to be as good as it was when Bryant was there. Period. And I say that because — as I suggest in the late Friday post — no program is ever again going to be as good as Alabama was when Bryant was there. And to say “Other coaches at Alabama were also good” is a little bit disingenuous. Other sluggers hit a lot of home runs for the Yankees, but there was only one Babe Ruth. Bryant won half (6) of the national titles Alabama claims — and would have won more according to Tide fans had he not been robbed of a couple. He won 13 of Alabama’s 25 SEC championships or co-championships. He was the only coach to win more than two SEC titles in a row, and he did it three times.
To say that we need to "accept his death" is tantamount to saying "Bryant is gone, you should give up football/stop acting like you deserve the kind of teams he coached." I’ll note that in your other previews you didn’t tell Ole Miss fans that they need to realize John Vaught is dead, or the Georgia fans need to realize Vince Dooley is dead, or that Auburn fans need to realize Shug Jordan (and Pat Dye’s liver and/or brain) is dead. … We aren’t all sitting around waiting for Bryant to rise from the grave and stalk the sidelines again; but we are expectant that any coach who does walk an Alabama sideline understands the standard of excellence that Bryant (and the other coaches before him) set and is willing to work towards those ends.
But, see, Ole Miss fans don’t expect to dominate the league, nor do Georgia fans (well, some of them, anyway … ), nor do Auburn fans. They want to win a conference championship on a regular basis and would like a national title every once in a while. There is a significant portion of the Alabama fan base — I would wager not a majority of them, but a good number of them — that feel like Bama should win or compete for the SEC and national titles every year. That’s not sustainable for any program in this day and age.
Yes, if Alabama fans want their program to be as good as it was during Bryant’s day, they are being completely unreasonable. That’s because any fan base that wants its program to be as good as Alabama was in Bryant’s day is being completely unreasonable. You had the best ever; you don’t get to do that twice.
3. By this point, I will assume that you’ve never talked about Florida fans wearing jorts, South Carolina being a coaching graveyard, LSU fans smelling like corn dogs, etc. etc. I did make some of those other jokes in the schedule post and was accused by another Alabama/political blogger of being a closet Barner. (Another one of the reasons I said Bama fans had more complaints than the bases of almost any other team we covered.) So if you’re going to make this point, please contact your fellow Tuscaloosa chroniclers and also ask them to lay off.
4. Huh?
We’re not saying you are being terribly unfair at pointing out that we "write and talk" about Bryant an awful lot, we are saying you are being terribly unfair to imply writing and talking about Bryant is ALL THAT WE DO.
So, had I made just one Bear-is-dead joke, that would have been okay? Where’s the line between these two points? Let me know my quota, and I’ll follow it strictly in the future so as to not offend the delicate sensibilities in Tuscaloosa.
Just because we measure that success by a high benchmark that was set in the past doesn’t mean we live in it.
Again, this is precisely my point. No coach is ever going to be as good or as successful as Bryant was. (For the record, I think Florida fans who see the next Bryant in Urban Meyer are at least as delusional as the Tide fans who expect annual national titles.) If you believe that Alabama is going to be good as it was during Bryant’s time, I would suggest that you probably do need to realize he’s dead.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Aug 8, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The idea that no coach could ever replicate what Bryant did...
…is nice and all, but it’s just not true. In this day and age the idea of a coach lasting at one school as long as Bryant stayed at Alabama is certainly a long shot, but over the short term Pete Carroll, Bob Stoops, Mack Brown, Urban Meyer, and Jim Tressel have done for their respective programs what Bryant was able to do at Alabama (stock it with talent, build it into an elite level program, and compete for league and national titles year in and year out), all while “living in the shadow” of other great coaches that built their respective programs. Bryant didn’t win every game he coached and he didn’t bring home a significant trophy every season either. What he did do was create a desire to succeed among his program and the fanbase and he was able to have the right pieces in place, be it his staff or his players, to create a favorable environment for that success. Isn’t that the exact same thing other top shelf coaches are doing at their programs right now?
by Todd on Aug 8, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and to add on to that...
If Meyer is able to win the MNC this year, then he’ll already be halfway to Bear Bryant in national championships. His career isn’t near over, and it wouldn’t surprise me if he gets at least one or two more after this year. He’s an excellent coach, and despite what some people may think, he doesn’t need Tebow to win the national championship for him.
by jsholt969 on Aug 9, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not necessarily saying I'll ever put him as high as Bryant..
but if he can continue what he’s been doing the past couple of years, then he just may get there one day.
by jsholt969 on Aug 9, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Meyer wins nine SEC titles and three national championships in 11 seasons
we’ll talk.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Aug 9, 2009 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that's precisely the point
What made Bryant unique was not just his short-term success — though there were certainly very impressive stretches in that realm — but the way he sustained it over a long period of time. That won’t happen again in the current SEC, in part because it can’t happen again. The game has changed too much.
Sure, if Alabama wants to joint the Pac-10 or the Big Ten, it can probably rip off five or ten conference championships in a row. Coincidentally, Mack Brown has won a single conference title and national title in 11 seasons. And Bob Stoops has dominated the Big XII in recent years, but he hasn’t won a national title in nine years.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Aug 9, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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