Topics for Discussion // 10.31.09
Time to start thinking about bowl games. Florida, Alabama, LSU, South Carolina and Auburn have clinched bowl elibility, with Vanderbilt out. Let's go easy on the first week thinking about this: Assume Florida or Alabama goes to the BCS Championship Game and the other goes to the Sugar Bowl. Select for the Capital One, Cotton and Outback bowls. (In case you don't know, Cap One gets the next team, Cotton gets the next SEC West selection and the Outback takes the next team out of the East.) Who doesn't get into the postseason at all?
Is this the Florida that we've been looking for? The 41-17 annihilation of Georgia seems to indicate that the Gators are who we thought they are -- a pretty good football team. But let's be honest for a minute here; the Dawgs haven't exactly been lighting things up and lost to Tennessee by almost the same margin.
Are you sold on Jonathan Crompton now? He might not have been a superstar against South Carolina, but he's thrown 11 TDs against just 3 INTs since the end of the Florida game. If he keeps playing this way, Tennesse might be unbeatable the rest of the way.
What do you think about Mississippi State? The Western Division Bulldogs picked up a second SEC win Saturday, defeating Kentucky 31-24. Their remaining games are vs. Alabama, at Arkansas and vs. Ole Miss.
More disappointing: Georgia or Mississippi? The Dawgs are 4-4 and have already matched the highest loss total of the Mark Richt Era. The Rebels are 5-3 but have to win seven games to go to a bowl because they scheduled two FCS teams; their remaining FBS opponents are Tennessee, LSU and the visit to Starkville.
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I-AA games and bowls
I thought they’d changed the rules back so that I-AA games are against not a handicap for bowl eligibility. But I can’t ever keep up with this so I could be wrong.
by PhilipVU94 on Nov 1, 2009 1:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
they have to count fcs wins now b/c there are 32 bowl games 64 teams going to bowl games
that means 56 teams do not get to bowl games. 120 fbs teams. 6-6 teams made it to bowls last year that had wins over fcs teams. what is funny or sad they are adding two more bowls next year.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 1, 2009 1:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
they changed it
Used to be only one I-AA win every 3-4 years could count towards eligibility. Now it’s one per year. So more relaxed, but not nonexistent.
by JCCW Jerry on Nov 1, 2009 1:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
mississippi is more dissapointing they were suppose to contend for ncg
that is why they had there lofty ranking.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 1, 2009 1:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
- Curiously, every non-eligible team (except Vandy, of course) needs two wins in their last four; at the moment nobody’s right on the cusp, and no-one’s teetering on the edge. UGA needs to split against Auburn and Kentucky (unless rivalry enthusiasm spurs them past GaTech); Tenn might need a split between Kentucky and Vandy, though they could certainly beat Ole Miss; Kentucky needs one from Vandy, UGA and Tenn; Ole Miss needs one from Tenn and MSU, assuming they’ll be dogs against LSU; MSU will very likely need Arky and Ole Miss; Arky needs two from SoCar, Troy and MSU. Frankly, I could see any team making it, though MSU has the slimmest margin for error; I could just as easily see any busting out. And of course so many of the remaining games are amongst the gooey middle, so it can become something of a zero-sum situation.
- Florida might be merely “very good” this year… and this might be a year where that’s enough. But even though UGA’s frailties helped, there’s a lot to be pleased with, particularly the first-half play-calling and the second-half kickoff coverage, both sore spots recently.
- Not really; this is awfully late in a QB’s career to suddenly “get it.” He’s certainly not dreadful the way he was early on, but I’d be more inclined to think we’re seeing high-side variance from a mediocre mean. Though, to be fair, we’ve seen a lot of that this year among SEC QBs.
- They play hard, and when they don’t play stupid they’re not half bad. (Ironically, the game that’s gotten them national attention was the one in which they benefited the most from luck and opponent’s mistakes; MSU had some really valiant efforts earlier in the season that were undone by their own screwups.) Getting to a bowl will be seriously difficult, but the program’s definitely moving in the right direction. The West really doesn’t have any basket-cases at the moment.
- Ole Miss; UGA’s been a disappointment, no question, but expectations weren’t that high for the Dawgs after losing Stafford and Moreno. On the other hand, this was supposed to be a breakout, top-10 or better kind of year for Ole Miss, and Snead’s great coming out party on the way to Heisman consideration and a massive NFL contract. Instead the Rebs are out of the top 25 again, and Snead’s just another average SEC QB. The only preseason darling that has fared as badly is Oklahoma, and they at least can plead injuries. (On second thought, UGA was #13 pre-season in both polls; hmm. OM is still the bigger disappointment, but perhaps it’s not so clear-cut as I was thinking.)
by peachy rex on Nov 1, 2009 6:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sixth topic:
Is Auburn’s bounce-back an anomaly or the starting of a trend? Not that they need it to be a trend to beat Furman and Georgia.
Anyways, let’s go ahead and make bowl guesses. . .
Capital One: LSU. They need a truly epic collapse to miss this now, losing to Bama, Ole Miss, and Arkansas. Which is all possible, actually. I’m just not predicting it. Who would step up in that case? Tennessee and Auburn (now) have the best shot, although USC and Ole Miss are not out of the game.
Cotton: Auburn. If they beat Georgia, they finish 8-4. Provided Ole Miss loses another game (almost a lock), that’s good enough for the Cotton.
Outback: Tennessee. They need to win out, but they should be favored in their remaining four games. Playing with their 3rd string MLB for the rest of the season won’t help, but this team looks like they’ve turned the corner. We’ll see if it sticks. Also (and this says a lot about the SEC this year), UT could still get here with a slipup, provided that the slipup is not against Ole Miss (who could take the spot if no East teams are decent), Carolina loses to Clemson, and Georgia loses to Auburn (or Kentucky). Four teams would be 7-5, and Tennessee would have wins over the other three.
Chick-fil-a: South Carolina. This is where it gets really tough. Because anyone could lose to anyone. Ole Miss, Arkansas, Georgia, and either Auburn or Tennessee should they slip are still in play for this spot. But USC has done well in taking tight games this year. I think that continues with wins over Arkansas and Clemson to put them in Atlanta for bowl season.
Liberty: Ole Miss. This makes sense for the Liberty, given the size of the Ole Miss contingent in Memphis. Also, Ole Miss should be 7-5, and with a head-to-head win over Arkansas, they’re the most attractive of the remaining teams.
Music City: Kentucky. Loss to a tough MSU team aside, the ’Cats have an excellent chance to win 3 of their last 4 to finish at 7-5. Georgia is fading, and I think Kentucky comes in to Athens and pulls the upset.
Independence: Arkansas. The Hogs get the requisite pair of wins to get to 6-6 and get to Shreveport.
Staying home: Georgia, MSU, Vandy. I can see MSU upsetting either Arkansas or Ole Miss, but not both. Georgia, on the other hand, is not in a good place right now. This is reminding me of disappointing seasons for Tennessee and Auburn last year. Georgia beats Tennessee Tech but loses three straight to Kentucky, Auburn, and GTech to end the season. However, if they do win one of those games, the SEC can get ten teams in bowls this year. Eleven is unlikely, because a winning streak for MSU makes it very tough for Arkansas and Ole Miss to get bowl eligible.
Also, Ole Miss is the biggest disappointment. No one was predicting Georgia to make a run into the top ten. Folks had Ole Miss beating ‘Bama and LSU and going to the SEC Championship. And I am sold on Crompton as an average (or slightly above average) SEC QB. Tennessee fans have been hoping all year that Crompton pulls a Carson Palmer under Kiffin’s tutelage, and although he won’t win a Heisman, the turnaround is just as drastic.
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 1, 2009 9:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Bowl Guesses
Florida/Bama: BCSNCG/Sugar in no particular order
Cap One: LSU (who else right now?)
Outback: Tennessee (can’t spell Citrus without “UT”)
Cotton: Auburn (the rules aren’t quite like you say. Cotton gets its choice of Western Division after Cap One makes its pick, but if it wants, it can take an Eastern Division team. It just has to wait until after Outback makes its selection to take an Eastern Division team. It will consider South Carolina, but will go with Auburn because they travel better.)
Peach: South Carolina
Liberty: Georgia
Music City: Ole Miss
Independence: Kentucky
Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.
by Richard Pittman on Nov 1, 2009 10:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
True on the bowl rules
I just don’t think I’ve ever seen the Cotton take the East or the Outback go with the West.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Nov 1, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You haven't followed things for very long
2001 Cotton Bowl: Kansas State vs. Tennessee (we’ll ignore the score)
2005 Cotton Bowl: Tennessee 38 Texas A&M 7
Actually, looking at things, the Cotton Bowl has never taken an East team OTHER than Tennessee since its contract with the SEC began. So you may’ve been paying attention to the other five east teams.
Also, the Outback has not taken a West team since Alabama in ’97.
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 1, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good catch
To be honest, I just didn’t remember those.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Nov 1, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Will the SEC Punish Brandon Spikes?
And if they don’t, is there any purpose in having rules and replays? That is the dirtiest play I’ve seen since Chop Block U took out Glenn Dorsey’s knee…and less excusable.
by Watchman on Nov 1, 2009 1:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Have you watched the SEC?
That stuff happens every week. Thats not on the officials they can’t see that stuff in the pile. Its on the coaches of both teams to address that type of play. When coaches break down film of their teams and the opposing team each week they see that stuff and don’t say anything to their players. A coach with good integrity, character, and sportsmanship would go to Brandon Spikes or any player and say “look I know you are playing hard, but cut that crap out, that is not what we are about.” I’m not saying only Florida does and Urban Meyer only condones in fact LSU might be even worse, but that was the latest example of vicious and dirty play in the SEC. Its on the coaches in my opinion to get that fixed and tell their players to cut that out.
I hate to say it but its accepted in the SEC and every where across college football. Sportsmanship, safety, and integrity have taken a back seat to winning.
There was a firefight!!!!
by ThePhenomenon on Nov 1, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Its official
After watching the game its official Tebow might be the most over hyped player in history of college football. He may be in the record books better than Herschel Walker, but anybody who watched Herschel or other great players knows that Tebow is not even in the same league as Walker or any of the other great players in history. We seem to discredit Tech QBs for all the numbers they put up because they are system QBs yet we don’t do the same thing for Tebow? 15 for 21 passing with 2 TDs and 164 yards while running 18 times for 85 with 2 TDs with a long of 23 is considered a Heisman worthy performance. Ridiculous. He is a just a product of stat padding and Meyer not wanting to use a running back in the red zone. For somebody that has a total of 614 carries in his career and have a career long of 30 yards tells you all you need to know about Tebow. You would think that somebody who runs the ball that many times you would be able to break at least one run for over 40 yards much less 50?
Now look at Colt McCoy a guy who doesn’t nearly get the accolades that he should has produced runs of 44, 35. 33 and 27 in four seasons while getting as half as many carries as Tebow (about 350). Its a total myth and a travesty that Tebow is being mentioned in the same breath as Herschel Walker. You could make the argument that McCoy is the better player than Tebow. Tebow averages 4.2 on 614 carries while McCoy averages 3.5 yards on about 350 carries and more than half of those were of broken plays while Tebow has had many more designed runs than McCoy. Imagine how could the Florida offense would be if McCoy who can actually throw the ball ran that offense. I bet they would be better.
I will be sickened to my stomach if he wins the Heisman.
There was a firefight!!!!
by ThePhenomenon on Nov 1, 2009 2:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You are kidding right?
You’re comparing rushing stats of a QB and a RB and you still aren’t very convincing. How many TD passes did Herschel throw??!
The thing that makes Tebow’s runs so impressive is that everyone in the stadium knows that he is running. The defense knows it. They load 9, 10, 11 in the box for 3rd and short or 4th and short. Yet, most of the time, they still cannot stop him. I don’t see McCoy running for a 4 yard gain on 3rd and 1 with 11 men in the box.
Plus, all talk of Big 12 QBs is moot. We watched Bradford light up the scoreboard with record scoring numbers last year against those marshmellow defenses. Yet when they faced a tough SEC squad in Miami, they managed what? 14 points.
I’m not saying Tebow deserves the Hesiman this year (he doesn’t to this point). But does anyone really care about the Heisman anymore anyway? I think Tebow is just focused on more crystal.
Finally, if it is so damn easy to roll up 51 rushing TDs and throwing for 77 more TDs just by “padding the stats” then why in the world doesn’t everyone do it? Oh yeah – because nobody else can.
by skigator93 on Nov 1, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If "everyone in the stadium knows that he is running"
then it doesn’t really matter that he’s a quarterback, does it? Everyone knew Herschel was running. Do you think defenses are more focused on stopping Tebow from running than they were Walker?
by CraigT on Nov 1, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Part of why I’m not as impressed is that he did it in 4 seasons, whereas Herschel did it in 3, without the benefit of his bowl stats. Almost half of Tebow’s rushing TDs came from his sophmore season, where he had 23 TDs on about 900 yards rushing. Something about those numbers has always made me raise an eyebrow.
by dxf04 on Nov 1, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get this argument at all
Georgia fans and those who don’t like Tebow have a valid point when they bring up the bowl numbers. But with all due respect, the argument about the number of seasons is nonsense. On no other record have I ever heard anyone put an asterisk next to it or say, “Such and such player did it in this many seasons or so and so did it in this many seasons.” Herschel Walker made his decision to go to the USFL after three years; Tebow decided to stay behind for his fourth. That doesn’t change the fact that in the course of his career, Tebow had more rushing TDs than Walker.
By the way, no one knows for a fact that Walker would have added a single rushing TD in that fourth year. He might have gotten injured on the first play from scrimmage in the first game and missed the entire year. That’s unlikely, sure, but it’s the reason you can’t use the number of seasons as an argument against career records — not in college football and not in any other sport.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Nov 1, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually the most famous asterisk of all was just like this..
Babe Ruth hit 60 home runs in 154 games. Roger Maris hit 61 in 162 games, and the record books contained an asterisk for years because of it.
Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.
by Richard Pittman on Nov 1, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn’t that partly because no-one, you know, liked Maris?
by peachy rex on Nov 1, 2009 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it had more to do with Ruth
Babe Ruth was really the first cultural phenomenon from baseball and fundamentally changed the game. (It wasn’t that he hit more home runs than anyone had before; it was that he hit unbelievably large amounts of home runs. The HR really was not a key part of baseball offenses before Ruth came along.) Anyone who broke the record was going to face some sort of complaint. Maris’ extra games just gave them some extra ammunition. But being Maris didn’t help.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Nov 1, 2009 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh
Fair enough, but that was also a season record and not a career record. I’m not aware of an asterisk for someone who played more seasons.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Nov 1, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad that you stood up for Tebow
Because Lord knows no one else is doing it.
by D.N. Nation on Nov 1, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think there should be an asterisk, or that the “record” shouldn’t count. I’m just saying that I’m not as impressed with him breaking it as I would be if he had done it on similar terms. Is that not my right? Is it okay to disagree with you? But, if Tebow manages to surpass Walker’s record by 13 TDs, that will appease me, as that will make up for the 5 from Walker’s post-season games and the 8 that Tebow got as a freshman (when he wasn’t the starter). That would put them on fairly similar terms.
by dxf04 on Nov 1, 2009 8:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Those parenthese were supposed to go around the word ‘count’, not ‘record’.
by dxf04 on Nov 1, 2009 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's perfectly okay to disagree with me
As long as it’s okay for me to disagree with you
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Nov 1, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It is.
I understand the argument that there’s “no asterisk for playing more seasons”. I get why some people are impressed with Tebow’s record, and that’s fine. I just don’t happen to be as impressed as everyone else. What I take issue with are people who act like the fact that I’m not completely impressed with it is the most ridiculous thing they’ve ever heard.
by dxf04 on Nov 1, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry you're not impressed
It is also silly to discount the record simply because Tebow played in more games, when Herschel had more carries in his 3 years than Tebow did in his 4. Also, why would you not count TDs during his freshman season when he didn’t start? What does that have to do with anything?
I am a big fan of Herschel – and I’m not sure who is better. They are such different players and are from such different eras it would be tough to compare them even if they did play the same position. But since one was a QB and the other a tailback, it’s impossible to say who was better.
by skigator93 on Nov 1, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't have to be sorry.
Tebow’s a big boy, and I’m sure he can handle one person not thinking he’s the greatest player to ever live.
by dxf04 on Nov 2, 2009 12:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What a bad post
Seriously. I have been watching college football a while, and I don’t know that I have ever seen a better player than Tebow. And I’m not fan of UF — I’m an LSU fan who greatly respects his talent and honestly enjoys watching such a special, once-in-a-generation college football talent. I’m wondering if you have even watched him play.
Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
St. Louis vegetarian blog
by Gregatron on Nov 1, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Georgia's record isn't the issue
It’s that Georgia’s coaching staff has resorted to gimmickry alt-uni BS in lieu of teaching their 4/5-star athletes how to freaking tackle. If Mark Richt thought black pants would ward off the knives for another week, he was very much completely absolutely mistaken.
by D.N. Nation on Nov 1, 2009 7:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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