Can You Penalize the Officials for Stupidity? LSU 20, Georgia 13

by cocknfire on Oct 3, 2009 7:42 PM EDT in Football Comment 28 comments

There were many, many things you could say about Saturday's matchup between LSU and Georgia, and very few of them would be good.

Both teams challenged impartial observers to find anything praiseworthy about their offenses. They both alternated between incompetent and minimally competent. Even when they did something good -- see LSU's crucial TD to take a 12-7 lead -- they found some way to mess it up -- see the scrambled two-point conversion attempt that followed.

Not that the defenses did much better. When either of them was most needed to carry their respective teams to victory -- namely in the wild fourth quarter -- they instead seemed baffled to come up with some way to stop the other team. Sure interceptions were dropped or otherwise not made and running backs who made it into the secondary could at times walk into the end zone.

But what might very well have decided this game was a terrible unsportsmanlike conduct flag on A.J. Green after Georgia took a 13-12 lead. The flag was enforced on the kickoff and almost assured LSU good field position even before Trindon Holliday was done with a long return.

Sure, LSU draw a flag almost as questionable as the one on Green after the Bengals' TD to take an 18-13 lead, 20-13 after a successful two-point conversion. But at some point, one of the offenses had to run out of the ability to magically score despite its own performance, and the Dawgs came up short with -- what else? -- a turnover. Joe Cox threw an interception that ended the game.

What did we learn today? Nothing, really. Other than the age-old lessons that fans learned a long time ago but that still seems to escape the NCAA.

Games should never be won or lost because a player is excited about making a big play.

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It really was a bad call..

the thing is, the one on Charles Scott was a good call. It could be looked at as a makeup call, but I think it was properly called. The one on Georgia was a mystery, and probably will be the stuff of legend for years to come. And I think it really did decide the game. Without that penalty, we are not put in a position where we can run the ball. Even with the good return, under normal circumstances we would have been around midfield. At midfield in that situation, you can’t really run the ball.

Still, Georgia gave us that big return, and then they gave us that big run. They got screwed on the call, but then they failed to execute in the aftermath.

Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.

And The Valley Shook

by Richard Pittman on Oct 3, 2009 8:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Saying that it decided the game

might be a little bit strong. I agree it was a crappy call; but you seem to be overlooking the fact that, on the previous drive, LSU marched 88 yards for the score, mostly behind Jefferson’s passing. LSU would have been in a tougher spot but it was just 15 yards and LSU only needed a field goal to win there. With two timeouts and more than a minute to go, that call wasn’t what put that game in a tidy gift-wrapped box for the tigers.

by no brainer on Oct 4, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are right...

Let me qualify, or backtrack, on my previous statement. The call, combined with Trindon Holliday’s big return, combined with good blocking on Scott’s run, combined with a broken tackle, decided the game.

So the bad call was a significant contributing factor, but did not (by itself) decide the game. In the end, a fortunate penalty call combined with good execution to win the game for us.

But I still maintain that without the penalty, we have to take to the air on our last possession, and we don’t know how that would have turned out.

Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.

And The Valley Shook

by Richard Pittman on Oct 4, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree that the one on Scott was a much more justified call. That said, Scott would have scored from anywhere on the field on the run that led to his flag, so another 15 yards wouldn’t have mattered.

Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog

by Year2 on Oct 4, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The difference is..

if not for the extra 15 yards of field position, Scott would not have gotten the ball at all. We would have been behind the 50, with under a minute to play and needing a field goal. We would not have run the ball.

Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.

And The Valley Shook

by Richard Pittman on Oct 4, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are right..

So the bad call was a significant contributing factor, but did not (by itself) decide the game. In the end, a fortunate penalty call combined with good execution to win the game for us.

But I still maintain that without the penalty, we have to take to the air on our last possession, and we don’t know how that would have turned out.

Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.

And The Valley Shook

by Richard Pittman on Oct 4, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually I see things different..

Both calls were horrible….they were ridiculous….but on the initial call with AJ Green he did not immediately give the ball to the referee….I could be wrong but I thought that was grounds for Unsportsmanlike Conduct calls……….again i dunno why I was thinking that but I felt LSU’s was simply a “Hey damn we messed up lets do it again” ….bc all he did was point in the air and I did not see anything over the top………

Great Game Hokies! What a battle!

by The Voice of Reason on Oct 5, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with no brainer. . .

It probably didn’t decide the game. That said, it doesn’t change the fact that it was awful, as have many similar penalties all year. I’ve never understood how a guy can make a big hit, then stand over the opposing player staring down at him, gloating and pounding his chest. As long as he moves on quickly enough its never called, happens 10 times a game. If you aren’t going to make that against the rules, how in the world can you make simply being excited about scoring against the rules? I hope the SEC comes out and says those calls were bad and gives us better guidelines for what is and isn’t allowed.

by mtri on Oct 4, 2009 12:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

wat?

Both teams challenged impartial observers to find anything praiseworthy about their offenses. They both alternated between incompetent and minimally competent. Even when they did something good — see LSU’s crucial TD to take a 12-7 lead — they found some way to mess it up — see the scrambled two-point conversion attempt that followed.

I’m sorry, but I have to question whether you actually watched this game. LSU’s offense was far from incompetent.

Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
St. Louis vegetarian blog

by Gregatron on Oct 4, 2009 9:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Competent at moving the ball, yes.

Competent at turning those yards into points, no.

Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog

by Year2 on Oct 4, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

^^Results oriented thinking

It was a minor miracle that LSU didn’t score more points than they did. You guys are normally on the mark when it come to concepts like variance, and short term results being different than long term trends — which is what I expect out of an SBN blog. I’m talking about the big picture here. If you move the ball like LSU did points will come. And as an LSU fan this was the offensive performance I have been waiting for.

Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
St. Louis vegetarian blog

by Gregatron on Oct 4, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd say it was an improvement.

Moving the ball up an down the field without crossing the goal line (our first half summary) doesn’t win many games. We did finally see the running we had expected out of Scott, and JJ is throwing down the field reasonably well.

Speaking of the first half, I don’t know what more we could have expected from the defense.

by artiger on Oct 4, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Improvement? Mos def

Moving the ball up an down the field without crossing the goal line (our first half summary) doesn’t win many games.

Yes, but moving the ball up and down the field is the most important ingredient to scoring lots of points. That’s my point. Moving the ball like that leads to 21-0 halftime leads much more often than 6-0 halftime leads. JJ’s biggest mistake of the game just happens to come when LSU is about to score. The O-line doesn’t get push for the first time all game on a 4th and inches. Does this reflect some fundamental flaw in LSU’s psyche, or some existential characteristic of not being able to perform under pressure (i.e. “clutchness”)? Or is it simply piss poor luck? I’m inclined, as a more stats and quantitative oriented guy, to think the latter.

Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
St. Louis vegetarian blog

by Gregatron on Oct 4, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

“JJ’s biggest mistake of the game just happens to come when LSU is about to score.”

That sounds an awful lot like something one might say about JaMarcus Russell.

Irony aside, yes, gaining yards is a good indication of a good offense generally. But, some offenses are better than others at turning yards into points.

Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog

by Year2 on Oct 4, 2009 12:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

This is a good point:

Irony aside, yes, gaining yards is a good indication of a good offense generally. But, some offenses are better than others at turning yards into points.

I agree. What I would like is a term to accurately and intelligently quantify this, and “competence” is a much more encompassing term. I think a lot of it is variance (luck), while a lot of it is not being able to execute in certain situations. The question is how do you tell the difference? I think you need a fairly large sample size.

Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
St. Louis vegetarian blog

by Gregatron on Oct 4, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

^^ Get off his back

Sorry but the rest of us count the score based on results, ask Houston. You don’t win 368 total net yards to 274. You win 20 points to 13 points. You can be proud of your guys and say they played well, but don’t try and make excuses because results are what matter. It wasn’t a minor miracle, LSU just wasn’t on their game. I am expecting a much more intense game against the Gators, but if LSU keeps preforming like they did last Saturday, the big picture is going to show LSU enjoying the SEC Title Game at home. As a Gators fan, this is the offensive performance I am hoping for. I don’t care how many yards you get, but if you can’t turn them into points, I still win.

by GeorgiaGator on Oct 6, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Between incompetent and minimally competent"

LSU gained 368 yards and did move the ball pretty good particularly in the first half, but also (as was pointed out) didn’t score as much as they should have. That would be the minimally competent part. If you don’t think six yards on the first four drives of the second half is incompetent, I don’t know what to tell you.

Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.

by cocknfire on Oct 4, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you don’t think six yards on the first four drives of the second half is incompetent, I don’t know what to tell you.

I would call it cherry picking. Most teams go through stretches like that.

Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
St. Louis vegetarian blog

by Gregatron on Oct 4, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ugh. Tough game.

The call sucked. Les Miles is a tool. LSU has successfully made me root for Florida next week.

by D.N. Nation on Oct 4, 2009 1:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And I'll be sure to pull for the Gators when your turn comes.

by artiger on Oct 4, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm guessing they won't need much help.

UT’s outcome against the Gators is probably the best Georgia could hope for.

by D.N. Nation on Oct 4, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great post

Thanks for sharing your deep thoughts. “Les Miles is a tool” is the kind of intelligent analysis that we need here.

Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
St. Louis vegetarian blog

by Gregatron on Oct 4, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

C'mon.

Dude threw the horns after the game. You think anyone else in this conference would do something like that? Maybe Kiffin. Eh, probably Kiffin.

Les finally comes within two scores of the team from Athens and escapes with the win. Me, I would have kept the head low and thanked my lucky stars.

by D.N. Nation on Oct 4, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What does "threw the horns" mean?

Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.

And The Valley Shook

by Richard Pittman on Oct 4, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Have a looksee

http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/tex/graphics/tradition-hookem-large305x318.jpg

Miles had coached against but never beaten Georgia and Texas prior to the win Saturday. He presumably wanted to tell the world that he had halved that.

It was a punk move, especially after his team got a huge boost from a celebration penalty. Wrong place and time. Rather than twist the knife, shake hands, leave the stadium, and save the antics for the bus.

by D.N. Nation on Oct 4, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was wondering what that was all about

I just thought he was praising rock-n-roll!

by skigator93 on Oct 4, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I saw him shake hands with Mark Richt, and he sure looked gracious..

I think you’re reading way too much into whatever you saw. Even if he did exactly what you say, for exactly the reason you say he did it, so what? It’s not like he went and stomped on your midfield logo, or let his players smoke cigars on the field. A non-vulgar hand gesture to no one in particular? One that has nothing specific to do with Georgia or Georgia fans? One that may mean something else entirely from what you are thinking? WTF? Why is this a thing at all?

Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.

And The Valley Shook

by Richard Pittman on Oct 4, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seems like a year or two ago

Richt and Co. pulled some kind of pregame stunt against the Gators. Even though the payback was hell, I thought you might need a reminder, since you said “You think anyone else in this conference would do something like that?”

by artiger on Oct 4, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs