Tebow Heisman = pure hype?

by Zoltar on Oct 23, 2009 12:00 AM EDT Comment 16 comments

At this point (which is still very early of course) all the pundits seem to be putting either Tebow or Ingram at the top of the Heisman list. Maybe I'm just a bama homer, but I honestly don't see any justification to vote for Tebow. I was watching the Heisman Update at yahoo sports, and Tom Dienhard actually said Tebow had a Heisman moment in the Arkansas game. Are you kidding me? His costly turnovers put them in a position to lose the game in the first place. Not to harp on the officiating any more than we have been, but almost half the yardage of the touchdown drive was the result of bad officiating calls. On the winning drive Tebow threw a ball which should have been intercepted in the endzone, however the receiver hooked the defensive back's arm preventing the interception. At the very least it should have been offensive pass interference, and the blame would have been laid on Tim Tebow. I have a real hard time crediting him with a heroic performance in that game. The truth is he was mediocre at best.

Ingram on the other hand put up one of the best performances by a running back I've seen in a long, long time. 246 yards on 24 carries. And that's not being inflated by just a big run or two. He was consistently getting 5, 10, 15 or more yards when given the ball. And of course with the clock winding down, he took over at the QB position in the wildcat and ran the ball down South Carolina's throat for a TD to put the game away. Every snap on that possession was an Ingram run. You could see he was about to pass out from exhaustion by the final play that he took in for a score. That's a Heisman moment.

So why should Tebow be considered for the lead? It seems like it's all hype, and the Orlando Sentinel agrees

Tebow remains the front-runner in the Heisman Pundit poll based on reputation alone. He has not been the best college football player this season. In fact, he has not even been the best of Tim Tebow. But because he and Colt McCoy came in with so much hype, returning for another season after outstanding 2008 campaigns, it is going to be exceedingly difficult to break up that duo and have any shot at winning.

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P.S.

my friend just sent me a link to this article. I think this guy has it right. Here’s some of the highlights

Well, we’re halfway through the season and anybody who still has Tim Tebow or Colt McCoy at the top of their polls must’ve just emerged from prison in Reykjavik…

You say Tebow led the game-winning comeback for Florida against Arkansas. I say Tebow’s six sacks and two lost fumbles were the reason his team was behind in the first place. Oh, by the way, Ingram has zero lost fumbles this year. He ran for 246 yards and 1 TD against South Carolina Saturday….

And yet, Tebow remains on top of Heisman polls now for no known apparent reason. If he were to win it in a rubber-stamp vote, it would be the worst miscarriage of the vote since Gino Toretta (1992).

What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.

-Hank Hill

by Zoltar on Oct 23, 2009 12:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

First off

Reykjavik is not far away, and it’s beautiful. I would venture a guess that it’s prisons are substantially nicer and safer than ours.

Second:

65.5 Comp%, 1032 yards, 8 TDs, 2 INTs, 164.63 rating.

378 yards, 3.8 avg, 5 TDs.

Yeah, I can’t see why a quarterback posting those kinds of numbers on an undefeated #1 team would get Heisman talk. Must be hype.

Ingram:

905 yards, 6.7 avg, 8 TDs.

186 recieving yards, 3 TDs.

Wow, it’s totally ridiculous that we haven’t given Ingram the Heisman already. I mean, he’s got like 570 more yards rushing than Tebow from his position of running back.

Tebow was “mediocre at best” vs. Arkansas?

17/26, 255 yards, 1 TD
69 yards rushing.

Yeah, totally mediocre. Either you didn’t watch the game, don’t understand football, or don’t understand what the word “mediocre” means. Given you’re an Alabama fan, it’s probably the last one.

by Giant Catfish on Oct 23, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um, the problem with that is that Tebow’s passing stats are on track to be lower than the last five QBs to win the award, including 2007 winner Tim Tebow. He’s on pace for 2,236 yards and 17 TDs passing and, if you want to go there, 819 yards and 11 TDs rushing, as compared to:

Sam Bradford, 2008: 4,464 yards, 48 TDs passing
Tim Tebow, 2007: 3,286 yards, 32 TDs passing (895 yards, 23 TDs rushing)
Troy Smith, 2006: 2,507 yards, 30 TDs passing
Matt Leinart, 2004: 3,322 yards, 33 TDs passing
Jason White, 2003: 3,744 yards, 40 TDs passing

So no, Tebow’s numbers aren’t that good by recent Heisman standards. In fact, his passing and rushing stats combined would only be more than the passing stats of Troy Smith. (Though he would have fewer TDs than Smith did.)

As for the “No. 1 team” bit, the award is given to the most outstanding player in college football, not the best player on a good team. So that shouldn’t matter, even if it does in the real world.

Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.

by cocknfire on Oct 23, 2009 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't particularly like the #1 team requirement

but it does matter…a lot…in the real world.

My problem with this post, and the idea in general, has less to do with stats and more to do with football. The stats are off since the past two years (I’d bet my house they’ll come up significantly, but that’s another discussion) but that’s not what makes Tebow great, is it? People like this poster call it “hype”, but in actuality it’s genuine leadership and outstanding ability to win games. I had hoped before going into this year that two national title rings, one Heisman, another he should have won, and just about every other award possible would give people some idea of the kind of special player they were watching. It seems as if I was wrong.

And I’m no Tebow lover, as I wrote in that fanpost.

You’ve got one season, do you take Ingram or Tebow? One game, Ingram or Tebow? One drive, Ingram or Tebow?

“Most outstanding?”

by Giant Catfish on Oct 23, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ingram is also on an undefeated #1 ranked team.

Point is that if Tebow had graduated and somebody else had come in and put up the same exact performances that Tebow has this year, he wouldn’t be close to being #1 on any heisman ballots.

What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.

-Hank Hill

by Zoltar on Oct 23, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm definitely not an Alabama fan...

But as long as we’re talking about pacing, Ingram is on pace to have roughly as many rushing yards as Tebow has passing yards. 2000 rushing yards for a running back is more impressive than 2000 pass yards for a QB. Besides, Arkansas gives up an average of 250 pass yards per game. Quite frankly, Tebow didn’t do anything that Joe Cox, Greg McElroy, or even Jerrod Johnson didn’t do just as well or better.

by dxf04 on Oct 23, 2009 3:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You've got some funny math

I’m not sure how 1032 yards in 6 games = 905 yards in 7 games, but I’m an engineering major, so what do I know?

by Giant Catfish on Oct 23, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I said "roughly"...

I’ll also posit that 1700 rushing yards for a RB is yet still more impressive than 2000 pass yards for a QB. I’m not looking for you to agree with me; I’m just telling you what I think. You’re also not the only engineer in the room; I teach heat transfer lab at the University of Illinois.

by dxf04 on Oct 23, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, I saw the game. I saw his two fumbles and six sacks. I saw the refs do as much for Florida on that TD drive as Tebow did. I saw Tebow make a throw that should have cost his team pass interference penalty on the winning drive.

Yea, I saw the 69 rushing yards tebow got against Arkansas… on 27 attempts which is more than Ingram had in his 246 yard performance. For the last two games Tebow has gotten 2.4 yards per rushing attempt. Very heisman like….

I didn’t say that Tebow shouldn’t be in the discussion, I questioned why people put him in the lead.

What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.

-Hank Hill

by Zoltar on Oct 23, 2009 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you saw the game

Then you saw that awful protection, and the mind-numbingly stupid playcalling. Arkansas telegraphs 6 rushers, we stick with 5 blockers and no one in the backfield.

Tebow’s “fumbles” were the result of 1) awful protection, and 2) a terrible snap. Putting the second fumble on Tebow is silly, both James and the snap are more to blame.

by Giant Catfish on Oct 23, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

instead talk more about your teams player and hype him up. Has there ever been a player to win on pure hype?

by Hook85 on Oct 23, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldnt vote for him as 1st place

but here is why some people might….if it wasnt for Tebow we would not be 6-0. I completely understand his stats are no where near his 2007 season. Still, he has made plays when we needed them the most. Tenn, LSU, Ark, games Tebow was put in several clutch situations and he came through. When I say clutch, I mean if he didnt make plays to keep the drive going the game could of possibly went the other way. 350 yds, 4 tds a game look great, but when the game is on the line he has proven you wouldnt want any other QB in college taking control of the game. I dont know for sure, but that is what I assume they are thinking as well.

I would go with Jordan Shipley
51 catches for 600 plus yards and 3 TD, and 2 PR TD. dude has been amazing.

by Hook85 on Oct 23, 2009 10:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Who cares?!

First off, per carry average is meaningless for a QB since sack yardage comes off rushing totals. If an OL misses a block and a QB gets sacked, it’s like he ran for -10 yards.

Next off, the Heisman voters will get their chance to see Ingram and Tebow head-to-head, if those are their final two candidates. I believe the ballots aren’t due until after the SECCG. Let’s see how they do head to head in a really big game (assuming they both make it there).

Finally, Tebow and the Gators only care about one award this season – and it’s not bronze.

by skigator93 on Oct 23, 2009 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs