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Around SBN: The Record of Wrongs: Vanderbilt Commodores

Topics for Discussion // 10.17.09

Mark Ingram for Heism@n? Ask South Carolina what they think about his chances after the running back rushed for 246 yards, two thirds of his team's total offense for the night. In many cases, it didn't matter that South Carolina knew that Ingram was going to get the ball and what he was going to do with it. He ran around defenders when he could find a way to and ran over them when they got in the way. Overall, he has 905 yards and 8 TDs with as many as seven games to go.

More impressive: Alabama or Florida? Or should that be less unimpressive? Both teams played subpar games but were bailed out by their best players or by their opponents' own issues. (Or the officials.) At least Alabama did it to a team that was ranked at the time and is now 5-2. Then again, Arkansas actually showed the ability at times to capitalize on Florida's mistakes, an idea that seemed alien to South Carolina.

What happened to the Year of the SEC Quarterback? Almost every signal caller in the league except Tim Tebow had a pretty bad day; completion percentages at or below 50 percent are the norm almost across the board. Are we back to where we were last year, when one or maybe two teams have a decent quarterback? Or was it just a bad week?

When I say Auburn Tigers, you say ... ? The second straight upset of the Plainsmen, this one by Kentucky, makes it look like we were all too eager to declare Auburn "back." Arkansas could be explained away as the Perfect Storm, a team with a problematic pass defense facing a strong air attack. No one ever called post-Andre Woodson Kentucky a superb passing team.

What are the big games of the second half? Florida's win paired with South Carolina's loss pretty much deflates their late-season matchup after Georgia's beginning pretty much made that showdown moot for all purposes other than bragging rights. Alabama-LSU could very well be the only major game left in terms of the standings.

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Also, who would be more screwed?

Florida if Tebow went down, or Bama if Ingram went down? Both teams looked utterly reliant on their two stars tonight. McElroy is getting worse by the week, and Florida….ugh. I guess the answer is UF, but Bama needs to get McElroy back on track real quick.

1) I’d buy him for NYC. Too early for winner talk, but in a year when the established stars aren’t shining so bright, Ingram has a chance. Tebow is slowly coming into form, but unspectacularly.

2) About equal, but for different reasons. UF impressed in that they were able to get their **** together after a disastrous first half and pull out the win. Bama impressed in that they shut down USC for huge portions of the game, and Ingram went wild. Slight edge to Bama on the night, larger edge to Bama overall. But…McElroy.

3) This was a bad week, but I think a lot of these guys were overrated. Turnovers everywhere tonight.

4) Rebuilding. It’s a long process, but I think just about everyone agrees that they’re on the right path. Maybe 2 years from being truly “back.”

5) The East is all but over. Bama-LSU, obviously. And….uhh….I guess UF-USC. I don’t know. TWLOCP is always an event.

by Giant Catfish on Oct 18, 2009 12:55 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

As professional bloggers,

Can y’all do the research and determine whether an Alabama player has ever been invited to the Heisman ceremony? I’m fairly up on Bama history (or at least I was when I was 12), but I don’t even know if the Deuce got invited in ’93 when he finished 3rd.

by rtr on Oct 18, 2009 1:59 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not a professional blogger, but I’d be surprised if the #3 vote getter was not invited to the ceremony.

Also, Jay Barker finished 5th in 1994 and I know he was invited to the ceremony because I read it in his book In Due Time.

by Paranormal on Oct 18, 2009 3:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's surprising

Because Barker wasn’t particularly great in 1994. He wasn’t bad by just about any measure that you use — he completed almost 62 percent of his passes that year — but there was only one 300+ yard game for the season and several where he passed for under 100. I was only in my early teens while he was playing at Bama, but I’ve always remembered him as a game manager.

Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.

by cocknfire on Oct 18, 2009 3:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Different era

Outside of Lavell Edwards at BYU, Jack Pardee & John Jenkins at Houston, and a scattering of teams in D-II (Delaware, Miss Valley State, etc.), you simply didn’t have the high-octane offenses that are now par for the course. For the most part, you had teams that ran pro-set and teams that ran option, with very occasional co-mingling. In that sense, most QBs of that era were game managers like Barker.

"That rug really tied the room together."

by pantsfucious on Oct 18, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure if that’s entirely true. By the late 80’s and early 90’s you had some QBs putting up pretty big numbers, though mostly from pro-sets.

I think it was party in recognition of how successful the team had been with him at the helm because he finished with a ridiculous 35-2-1 record as a starter. Steve McNair and Kerry Collins were ahead of him in the voting. Also, Barker finished in 5th by a wide margin so it’s not like he was close to winning it.

by Paranormal on Oct 18, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i need to go to bed

1) it would be nice, but the team and most of the fanbase care more about the NC than having a player win the heisman. not saying we wouldn’t go spastic if he did, or support him should he start being officially considered.

2) seriously? why is this question even being asked? florida, for all intents and purposes, should’ve lost to a team alabama smote old-testament style 35-7. the gators can thank those refs for the assist. when gary danielson says the calls were BS despite his tebow homo-lust, you know something’s up. meanwhile, alabama beats the #22 ranked team in the country by two touchdowns, despite having as many turnovers as the gators, having javier arenas sit the game out with an injury, and having to deal with a QB having a meltdown. the defense was scary, and the RB had a performance that has sites like this one asking if he deserves the heisman. while both wins were less than pretty, is anyone really thinking that the gators win was more impressive?

3) probably a bad week (or two if you’re mcelroy).

4) i wasn’t all too eager to declare auburn “back” because i saw that their offensive numbers were against crap teams. plus it was obvious that their defense couldn’t tackle a tree. why no one else seemed to see it still puzzles me. maybe it was the feel good story angle. even i wanted them to do well after the horrorshow they had to go through last year, and i’m a bama fan. i knew that as soon as they faced the meat of the SEC schedule, they would more than likely be exposed. the extent of the exposure, however, has been a surprise. auburn no doubt has potential, but until they get something resembling a defense, it wont be realized for a couple of years.

5) bama-tennesee is big. the vols had a bye week and bama will have been playing for 8 weeks without one. couple that with the tide’s recent (non-rushing) offensive, special teams, and inexplicable penalty psychosis, it could be an interesting game. i don’t see the vol offense getting it done against the bama D, but there is a distinct possibility it may come down to whoever kicks the most field goals.

if bama beats tennessee, i dont think the game with lsu will be as huge as people are making it out to be, as the tigers just arent that good this year.

none of florida’s games will be big because look at that schedule, they’re gonna murder all of them.

auburn-georgia will be slightly interesting in that it’ll probably be the highest scoring game in SEC history.

other than that, not much.

this has been one of the weirdest football seasons i can remember in that every team seems to suck in one way or another.

"Have you seen my highlights?" - Javier Arenas

by clarence on Oct 18, 2009 2:21 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

2 contentions

if bama beats tennessee, i dont think the game with lsu will be as huge as people are making it out to be, as the tigers just arent that good this year.

So LSU just isn’t that good, but UT is? Please.

Also, while you’re telling yourself how great Bama was and how terrible UF was, and then say that Arenas was out, you might want to consider that Spikes missed the entire game after injuring a groin on the first series. That sort of helped Arky’s running game a bit.

Also, stop crying about the refs, and leave that to losers.

by skigator93 on Oct 19, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the thing is

UT-bama is a fierce rivalry game. weird things happen in those. call me superstitious, but i look at this one as a toss-up. just like the iron bowl. also, the vols gave the gators a tough game, tougher than LSU. so there’s that.

didn’t say how great bama was or how terrible UF was as a program. i was just answering the question “who had the more impressive win?”, which i thought was quite obvious. yes spikes was out, and yes arenas was out, but even without one of our playmakers (two, if you want to get really specific and count dont’a hightower, who is arguably the best defensive player on the bama squad), the bama win was still more impressive.

as far as which team is better overall, i think they’re evenly matched, and either could beat the other by making fewer mistakes. if either team plays like they did on saturday, and the other one is even slightly better, the slightly better team will win. i have nothing but high praise for tim tebow, as he’s the reason for that amazing 4th quarter that beat us last year. so don’t take my incredulous sounding comment as a slam against the gator team as a whole, just their craptacular win, which was quite a bit more craptacular than our own.

and about the refs—they helped the gators a great deal, basically guaranteeing 7 points. the way the gators had been playing that day, those points would not have been guaranteed otherwise. once again, the SEC had to make a comment and apologize, something they would not do if those bad calls were illegitimate. now i’m not saying that florida wouldn’t have won that game without those calls—i fully expected them to, and arkansas shoddy kicking and dropped passes were no one’s fault but their own, but it turned a toss-up into a sure bet. this is the aspect of it that sticks in every college football fan’s craw, other than gator fans, who seem to be of the opinion that they somehow got all those points on the board all by themselves.

and one more thing, going back to why i think the UT game is more dangerous than the LSU game—this same officiating crew will be there. if they happen to call phantom penalties that help alabama out in a closely contested game, i will be the first to admit it, and man up and say the other team got shafted, something i’ve yet to see a gator fan do.

"Have you seen my highlights?" - Javier Arenas

by clarence on Oct 20, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

- It could happen; this is the widest open the race has been in a while, though I guess 2007 was pretty wild too.

- Bama gets the edge because their defence never cracked and they could always just give it to Ingram when they ran out of ideas on offence, but both teams were definitely unimpressive. Arky and South Carolina are pretty much equivalent as opponents – the Cocks don’t have a win as good as Arky’s dismantling of Auburn, but until tonight they didn’t have a loss as bad as Arky’s dismantling by Bama. To me the ranking issue is due to a quirk of scheduling – Arky had the bad luck to face the Tide first.

- Quarterback play has been pretty bad this year across the country, really; when was the last time so many highly touted QBs at high-profile programs failed to develop at the same time? Lots of ugly performances today, continuing a season-long trend.

- The new coaching staff is obviously a major improvement, but these are still basically the same players as last year, so there’s a definite ceiling. The hot start was obviously something of an illusion, but I don’t think Auburn will fold down the stretch. Seven or eight wins, a decent bowl, a nice recruiting season – they’ll be somebody to worry about again soon enough. (Though they’d better watch out for Arky, which looks further along the re-development path.)

- Um, er. In the East, SoCar-Florida could have some juice, but it depends on the records going in; with UF at 4-0 and everyone else with two or more SEC losses already, the Gators can drop a game against anyone without conceding the division. In the West, I guess Bama-LSU is the obvious choice based on current records; everyone else needs help to catch up. LSU-Auburn is another intriguing one – if the purple/gold Tigers lose to the orange/blue Tigers, Bama will likely be in the same boat as Florida. (Unless Kiffin & Son, Ltd, can spring a gigantic upset next week.)

by peachy rex on Oct 18, 2009 2:22 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't see where this Barn team's coaching staff is an upgrade...

Sure, they can put up points now…on Ball State, but the defense is very, very bad. They can’t tackle, they’re out of position, and when they are in position, they don’t don’t play smart.

"Hollywood made a movie of my life. The film had me proposing to my wife on the football field. I would never misuse a football field that way." -Crazy Legs Hirsch

by Stuck in the Plains on Oct 18, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Malzahn’s clearly a great improvement over whatever they were doing last year on offence; more importantly, everyone seems to be pulling in the same direction now. Last year’s staff was seriously dysfunctional – we’re talking Florida St level – and it’s tough for a team to perform anywhere close to its potential in that situation. Merely having coaches who get along with each other and do their respective jobs without indulging in unnecessary politicking is worth a couple of wins to Auburn.

by peachy rex on Oct 18, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My understanding is that

it was always that way with Tubs at Auburn. The rotating OCs, throwing coordinators under the bus, the nature of Auburn’s incestuous Raine-Lowder-coaching dynamic…

"Hollywood made a movie of my life. The film had me proposing to my wife on the football field. I would never misuse a football field that way." -Crazy Legs Hirsch

by Stuck in the Plains on Oct 18, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I told you that

UF, UA, UTx would have 13 turnovers combined and all all three would win, would you believe me?

Didn’t think so.

"Hollywood made a movie of my life. The film had me proposing to my wife on the football field. I would never misuse a football field that way." -Crazy Legs Hirsch

by Stuck in the Plains on Oct 18, 2009 9:08 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I hope Bama jumps over UF

to be number 1 in the polls. We will end up playing them anyways most likely, so who cares if were 1-3. Seems like being number just adds that extra motivation for teams to knock you off.

by Hook85 on Oct 18, 2009 9:23 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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