Everbody Chill Out: Tennessee and Arkansas Raise Expectations and Other Week 6 Action
by cocknfire on Oct 13, 2009 5:05 PM EDT
in SEC Football
Email
PrintTHOSE WHO CANNOT REMEMBER THE PAST ARE CONDEMNED TO REPEAT IT
Tennessee 45, Georgia 19
Not even 24 hours after the Vols' amazing [win] ... and ESPN is giving credit not to Tennessee but saying it was [a Georgia] collapse. ...
Oh good grief, ESPN, can't we just enjoy a moment in the sun for ONE STINKIN' DAY before you idiots begin your usual "we hate all things Tennessee" campaign?!?
Oh, I'm sorry. I miscopied this. That's actually a post about the Tennessee defeat of LSU back in 2005. Remember what happened that year? I could launch into a full-blown defense of Kyle, but I think he's more than capable of doing so himself if he thought it was needed. But it is Tennessee fans who need to stop whining. (By the way, if you're going to run a blog, you should probably know the difference between a blog and a "chatboard," if that's even a term.) You defeated one SEC team that has been inconsistent and has played a far more difficult schedule up to this point than you have even dreamed of. No, the Vols proved nothing more Saturday than that they beat an SEC team. We're not even all that sure that Georgia is a particularly good team. They might be, but the sample size to suggest that is pretty small. Just calm down.
Now, as for the other fan base involved in this game ...
For whatever it's worth, I do think [Mark Richt] has earned a mulligan and ought to get a chance to repair all the damage done this year, but I would instantly reverse that statement if he were to once again insist on retaining [some assistants]. They have failed, repeatedly, and they've got to go. Period.
Dang. It happened again. This post isn't a defense of Mark Richt and why he's earned another chance to fix things in Athens. It's about Tommy Tuberville and how he should have gotten another opportunity to correct his mistakes in Auburn last year after an extraordinarily successful run as the Tigers' coach. It was written after the 2008 West Virginia game.
(By the way, the quote used in this subhead is what George Santayana actually said.)
My point in undertaking this exercise is not to say that Tennessee will go 5-7 again or that Georgia will fire Mark Richt (though, as a South Carolina fan, I'll help pay to set up firemarkricht.com). I'm saying that ruling either out at this point of the season is to ignore history. The situations weren't exactly analogous, but they prove the danger in assuming too much from one game or that the level-headed among us will make the decision.
Fan bases have a tendency to grow increasingly irrational as their frustration increases, and while I think the Mayor and some of the other Georgia bloggers are among the smartest and most level-headed fans for their team, I have to wonder how representative they'll be if there's another embarrassing loss or two somewhere on that schedule. If Georgia is defeated by Vanderbilt or Kentucky and the Dawgs end up 6-6 or so, I'm not sure if the rational fans will be able to save Richt.
Their counterparts in Auburn weren't able to save Tuberville.
ONE SEASON IS OVER AND ONE HAS BEGUN? NOT QUITE
Arkansas 44, Auburn 23
This game was clearly strength against weakness; the worst part of Auburn's team on either side of the ball is pass defense and the best part of Arkansas' team on either side of the ball is pass offense. So Auburn fans probably shouldn't be so concerned that the Hogs rung up 44 points Saturday.
What would give me slightly more pause is the Auburn score. Arkansas' defense is not very good, though at times they looked good this past weekend. Whether that means the Hogs have improved or they just looked good by comparison is an open question.
But Chris Todd was less than stellar. He barely completed half of his passes (15-of-28) and averaged just 4.8 yards an attempt. Ben Tate, though, was nothing short of spectacular, running for 184 yards and two scores on 22 carries. Auburn's season isn't lost Saturday any more than Arkansas' season was made.
That said, Arkansas has plenty of reasons to be encouraged. Saying "pass offense vs. pass defense" doesn't tell the entire story of the game. Michael Smith ran for 145 yards on 18 carries and a touchdown, his best performance of the year.
Auburn might not be as bad as they looked Saturday and Arkansas might not be as good as they appeared. But we found out that neither is quite what we thought they were Friday.
ABOUT AS CLOSE AS IT COULD BE
South Carolina 28, Kentucky 26
When you're playing against as many odds as the Gamecocks were -- going for the program's 10th straight win against UK and Steve Spurrier's 17th -- you can be forgiven for just about anything as long as you win. Nonetheless, South Carolina will have to play better against Alabama simply to keep the game from turning into a blowout.
The score isn't at all deceptive in relation to the stats. South Carolina outgained Kentucky by 1 yard and one first down. The Gamecocks had a better passing game thanks to another solid performance from Stephen Garcia (16-of-23, 233 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INTs) and the Wildcats did better on the run, with both Derrick Locke and Randall Cobb rushing for 89 yards and a TD.
But stars beyond Garcia also emerged for the South Carolina offense, a critical part of any effort to avoid yet another late-season collapse. Kenny Miles ran for 100 yards on 17 carries and Alshon Jeffery caught seven balls -- some in freakish fashion -- for 138 yards and 3 TDs.
Is this game encouraging for Kentucky, who fell one two-point conversion short after an inexplicable decision to not use Cobb at QB to try to get it? Maybe. But Mike Hartline is probably done for the rest of the season and Rich Brooks plans not to use Cobb under center any more than usual, meaning untested signal-callers will take the field against the weaker part of the schedule.
We'll see soon enough how that turns out.
YOU'LL WIN THESE GAMES ONE OF THESE DAYS
Houston 31, Mississippi State 24
Yes, State probably got ripped off on a call that ended what could have given the Western Division Bulldogs a 24-14 lead early in the second half. But even coming this close to a consensus Top-25 team is another sign that Dan Mullen is slowly building a team that will be able to compete in the SEC.
After all, Mississippi State went almost stride-for-stride with a team that is piling up yardage at a near-historic pace and added another 553 in this game to 490 for the Bulldogs. Tyson Lee is still uneven (15-of-23, 160 yards, 2 INTs), but Anthony Dixon 21 carries, 134 yards, 2 TDs) will keep Mississippi State in a lot of games.
The defense, though, could still use a little work. Houston might be a great Conference USA team, but they're a C-USA team when all is said and done.
THEY'RE BAAAAAAACK
Army 16, Vanderbilt 13
There's no reason to avoid saying it any longer: The old Vandy is back. The Commodores outgained Army but turned the ball over three times and lost in overtime after an inspiring rally to tie the game with less than a minute left.
Larry Smith is not now a great player, though I think it's way to early to say that he never will be. He was 11-of-24 for 144 yards and 2 INTs. Smith can run -- he had the long play from scrimmage for Vanderbilt with a 33-yard run. But an SEC-caliber passer he's not, unless of course 2008 is your measuring stick. The dream of a bowl game is gone; at this point, a third win is about the best that Vanderbilt fans can hope for.
WE WROTE ABOUT THESE ONCE
Alabama 22, Ole Miss 3
Florida 13, LSU 3
It's hard to find much more to say about these two games than was said Saturday evening. I might have focused a bit more on the losing team than the winning teams, but that should be seen as no slight to Alabama. Beyond the Tide's suspect red-zone game and the fact that Tim Tebow seemed a little bit off at the beginning of the game, Alabama and Florida both passed their biggest SEC tests so far with flying colors.
They're both still on pace to collide in Atlanta. What more need to be said?
20 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
UT v. LSU '05 vis a vis UT v. UGA '09
The former was obviously a fluke. A very very lucky win.
The latter was a good ole fashioned beatdown. At the end of the game, there were no lingering questions about which team was better. Seven year old children and elderly grandparents alike will tell you it was that team wearing that funny pastel color.
So, I guess I am questioning the analogy.
________________________________
Eric Berry is better at football than you.
I don't think
anybody is questioning who the better team was. The issue is that Tennessee fans want to think they’re awesome and all that, but the fact is, all they did was beat a mediocre at best team.
by jsholt969 on Oct 13, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The analogy has more do with overreacting to one win
I will agree that Tennessee looked better than Georgia on Saturday. We just don’t really know “better than what.” So I think Kyle was well within the bounds of reason when he concluded that (a) Tennessee has looked bad the rest of the year; (b) We were kind of unclear about Georgia; © Since Tennessee looked better than Georgia, we can now assume that Georgia is not a very good team. Further evidence might tip that balance one way or the other. But to say Tennessee beat Georgia so now Tennesee is a good team requires ignoring all the other evidence we have this season based on one game.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
NICE,
I was thinkig the same thing, actually I even posted a comment over there implying the same thing…“I remember when we beat UGA for the first time”. I got called a troll, anyway my point of that comment was, the same thing you are stating. A little dramatic for just beating UGA. Cleary I know Tenn has beat UGA before.
We shouldnt be all that suprised though, look how happy Tenn fans were when they ONLY lost by 10points to the Gators.
I dont doubt, that Tenn is a power house school, with the best D cordinator in college or the NFL, they should be back to competing for BCS NC in the distant future.
Observers can draw at least two conclusions from the UT/UGA game, and maybe a lot more
Here is the one I don’t like (oversimplified for clarity):
“Even though we thought Georgia was a mediocre team last week, the fact that they were soundly defeated by Tennessee — who is a terrible team — proves that Georgia is a terrible football. Because Georgia is a terrible football team, Tennessee fans shouldn’t get too excited about the win.”
This explanation doesn’t just bother me because it disses my school. It bothers me because it is intellectually bankrupt. It bothers me because it is a circular argument, and, as an attorney, I find circular arguments quite repugnant.
I don’t want to get too long-winded here, so I will tease this out into a fanpost later on this afternoon.
________________________________
Eric Berry is better at football than you.
But that's not precisely what I'm saying
Let’s say for the sake of argument that Florida International defeats Florida near the end of the season. Should we then rank FIU because they defeated Florida? No. Would we radically reassess Florida because they were defeated by the Golden Panthers? I would hope.
The idea that Georgia was mediocre emerged from the sort of balancing act that we all carry out at this point of the season: We thought Georgia was an above-averaage team at the beginning of the year. Since the season started, they have played like a below-average team. But they hadn’t had an awful game like the Tennessee game yet.
Now, we can draw two conclusions from this. One is to ignore Tennessee’s entire season up until now — several games suggesting the Volunteers aren’t very good — and not change our view of Georgia at all and say Tennessee is a good football team.
Or we can combine what we know about Tennessee — i.e., that we have evidence that they aren’t a very good football team — with what we know about Georgia — that to this point, they haven’t done anything (save a “Life on the Margins” win against South Carolina) to prove they are are good football team — to suggest that (a) Georgia isn’t very good and so (b) Tennessee fans shouldn’t get excited about it.
It’s not like we’re just pulling out of the sky some notion that Tennessee isn’t very good. The results on the field the first few weeks have given people a solid reason to believe that Tennessee isn’t very good.
It’s not that I believe that Georgia isn’t a good football simply because of the loss to Tennessee. It’s that the perception of Georgia was on the fence until Saturday. It’s not anymore.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
At the same time,
a lot of Tennessee’s offense looking good on Saturday had nothing to do with Georgia’s performance. Crompton was accurate all day long (a condition that wasn’t true before). The receivers caught nearly every pass they touched (also not true before). Those were the two largest liabilities through the rest of the season, and they weren’t so on Saturday.
The special teams are still a wreck, and the overall seasonal balance is, well, ok for the offense (nothing special – just ok). But for one game, Tennessee really did play very well. In light of that, it’s perhaps a bit simplistic to say that Georgia’s is a bad team simply because one opponent played their best game of the season against them.
I really think that people are selling Georgia short at the moment. They’re not nearly as bad as many people (including Vols fans, non-UGA fans, some UGa fans, and T. Kyle King) are trying to make them sound. There is some hyperbole going around.
by David Hooper on Oct 14, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Tennessee's offensive explosion
against Georgia is what I think is at the heart of Tennessee fans’ excitement about their team after last Saturday. I don’t think anyone can say with a straight face that the Vols have proven themselves to be a good football team at this point, but before last week I think everyone could agree that the biggest problem was the lack of a credible passing attack. The run game has been solid, and the defense has been excellent. Crompton and the receivers had been terrible until that point, excepting the WKU game. Everyone knows this.
To anyone who actually watched the games, it would have been clear that UT’s troubles on offense had just as much if not more to do with lack of execution than the talent of the opponent’s defense. Wasn’t the running joke that no matter what the color of the opponents’ jerseys, so long as they weren’t orange, that Crompton would throw it right to them? That Tennessee’s offense was terrible no matter who they played (again, not including WKU)? That a giant catfish would be better at QB than Crompton?
Now, Crompton finally made something happen. Receivers caught balls. The Vols didn’t beat themselves on offense. This gives Tennessee fans something to be optimistic about. I don’t think it’s inspiring delusions of grandeur in Tennessee fans, and any complaining from Tennessee fans about their team being disrespected has more to do with the unnecessary polemic used both in that post over at Dawg Sports and in every post mentioning UT this week on this blog. It hasn’t been good-natured, SEC ribbing between rivals; it’s spiteful and childish. And it’s also spiteful and childish to further harangue those who have taken umbrage at those remarks. Paraphrasing John Stuart Mill, the worst polemic is that which stigmatizes those who hold a contrary opinion as bad and immoral.
In short, Tennessee fans know their team still hasn’t proved anything. What they don’t understand is why it’s such a crime to be optimistic about the possibilities for the rest of the season if the offense can keep up their pace when just two weeks ago there wasn’t much to be excited about.
This is totally irrelevant
But John Stuart Mill is my boy.
________________________________
Eric Berry is better at football than you.
I didn't say that anyone was bad or immoral
Part of what sparked this was seeing how much Tennessee fans ripped Kyle for saying what he honestly thought: That Tennessee was a bad team and that Georgia losing to them proved that Georgia probably wasn’t a good team. If anyone was spiteful and childish or was out there “stigamtiz[ing] those who hold a contrary opinion as bad and immoral,” it was the Tennessee fan base that hounded Kyle.
I’m failing to see what the problem is in simply saying that I think Tennessee fans shouldn’t get too excited about defeating Georgia. If anything, it makes me wonder more about my team (which lost to Georgia). It’s got nothing to do with team loyalties and everything to do with stepping back from looking at just one game and seeing it in the context of the entire season.
There’s nothing wrong with being optimistic about your team. What is wrong is the fact that there are Tennessee fans out there attacking those who disagree as if they’re making some sort of wild-eyed claims that have no basis in reality.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
Just how bad is Georgia, then?
If you think that there is a lot of truth in Kyle’s assessment of Tennessee as being “terrible” and “awful”, and his conclusion that “simply stated, they suck”, then how bad is Georgia? Ridiculously, astonishly bad? Maybe just a little better than Western Kentucky?
Well then how bad is Arkansas and that team coached by Spurrier? Should we just relegate them to Div I-AA?
And didn’t LSU just barely beat UGA? And yet you are still calling them the third best team in the SEC?
Something has to give here. We either give Tennessee a little credit, or we change the name of our conference to “the ACC.”
________________________________
Eric Berry is better at football than you.
Ahem
If anything, it makes me wonder more about my team (which lost to Georgia).
Listen, we all know the problems with transitive football, whereby a lower-rung FCS team ends up the BCS champion almost any year in which the NC isn’t undefeated.
I’m calling LSU the third-best team in the conference for lack of a better option. So if you want to call that ACC-esque, I suppose you have a point, though I would argue that a 12-on-12 game would end up with the SEC winning at least eight of them.
I also didn’t say there was a lot of truth to what Kyle said. I’m simply arguing that it’s a reasonable point of view.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
If this is true
that the vol fans were estatic over the performance of the offense, then ill admit i may have been overly judgemental.
But from a outside perspective, it looks like the vol fans are acting like they have never beat UGA before. As if beating UGA signifies somthing.
Perhaps a more succinct explanation of my point
…can be made in response to your statement here:
But to say Tennessee beat Georgia so now Tennesee is a good team requires ignoring all the other evidence we have this season based on one game.
But to say that all we learned from Tennessee beating Georgia is that Georgia is a terrible football team requires an assumption that team strength is static in nature. Stated differently, it rules out the possibility that Tennessee improved; specifically, that they might have taken some strides forward in the passing game.
We both know that college football teams are transient creatures. This isn’t EA sports — teams aren’t stuck with a constant power rating for the entire year. Regressions happen. Improvements happens. Nothing I am saying here is mindblowing. And the conclusions that flow from an improved Tennessee team are much more plausible than the ramifications that logically follow a conclusion that Georgia is simply a terrible terrible football team.
________________________________
Eric Berry is better at football than you.
Well then why assume that Tennessee progressed?
Why can we not assume that Georgia regressed from when it defeated Arkansas and Tennessee?
I think I got involved in chasing a bit of a rabbit here. My major sticking point is this: Even if Georgia is a good team, defeating them does not automatically make Tennessee a good team. As we saw with the LSU game in 2005, the worse team sometimes wins.
I’m coming around on Tennessee not being as epically bad as I thought they were at one point. But that doesn’t mean I’m sold on them being good at this point.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
Most comments are as a result of a disagreement about a point..
If I replied with “+1” whenever I saw a comment I agreed with…well, that would be annoying.
On the whole, though, I am not overly contrary. Keep looking at my comments; I’m sure you’ll find one.
________________________________
Eric Berry is better at football than you.
Auburn : Tuberville :: Georgia : Richt?
Good points about the heat that MR is facing, and especially about how bloggers tend to be among the most rational of fans.
One difference between the two schools, at least in my perception, is the governance or decision making process as it impacts the football programs. In Auburn Bobby Lowder and his crew have pretty much controlled that program (apparently the fact that he can’t, you know, keep his bank solvent doesn’t bother Auburn people) so Tuberville was never going to appeal to enough rational minds to save his job. Rational minds weren’t the ones making the decision.
I’m less aware of how things are made at Georgia, but my impression is that Adams is more of a force and has more of an inclination to consider the academic side of things. That’s not to say that they wouldn’t can Richt for prolonged Donnan-like or worse results of course, but I think the desire not to be perceived as — well, as Auburn! — would prevent them from acting too rashly.
This is just one neutral fan’s perspective, though, and if some of the rational Auburn folks like Jerry tell me I’m overstating Lowder’s influence then I’m open to reconsider.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
