Topics for Discussion // 11.29.08
Okay, so it's a down year. But we can't beat the ACC?!? Apparently not. The SEC was 3-3 against its purportedly inferior competitor coming into Saturday, then watched Georgia and South Carolina upset by in-state rivals and Vanderbilt lose to Wake Forest. Those games and the triumph by Florida against Florida State left the SEC 4-6 against the ACC. More on this tomorrow, but how badly does this damage the reputation of the SEC?
Bowl schedule: More muddled. Everything would have been much easier had Georgia and South Carolina just won -- but they didn't, so here where are. Let's assume both Florida and Alabama make the BCS, which seems like a safe bet at this point. My best guess would still put Georgia in the Capital One Bowl, but the Orlando postseason matchup could decide to take Ole Miss. For the moment, we'll say they choose the Dawgs. That would put Ole Miss in the Cotton Bowl and probably keep South Carolina in the Outback (deserving or not). Now the Chick-Fil-A Peach Bowl can select Kentucky, LSU or Vanderbilt. This is where the chaos starts. Go with Vanderbilt, and you've got an angry LSU that gets kicked down to the Music City Bowl while Kentucky goes to the Liberty. Go with LSU in the Peach, and you've got an angry Music City Bowl forced to choose from a home team that won't sell hotel rooms (Vanderbilt) or a team that's been there, done that -- the last two years. Whoever gets left out in that scenario goes to the Liberty. But put Ole Miss in the Capital One Bowl and LSU in the Cotton Bowl, and then things get real interesting. Georgia and South Carolina are suddenly fighting for the Outback Bowl, with the loser hoping to go to the Peach and giving us the angry Music City Bowl. Welcome to parity. Where am I wrong?
Croom is gone. Who in the world would take the Mississippi State job? I mean, really; do you think any prominent head coach is going to answer a call from the Bulldogs? The more I think about this, the more I begin to wonder if this wasn't a bad decision by whoever made it. Croom had his issues, and the program had stalled, but now you have to start over without a clear candidate for the job.
It's a three-way tie in the Big XII South. Who should go to the championship game? Remember, it's Oklahoma, Texas AND Texas Tech. Also outside the SEC: Wouldn't Rick Neuheisel like nothing better than to keep Southern Cal from getting the Pac-10 crown? More importantly, can he? And if Southern Cal wins the Pac-10, who gets the other BCS berth: Ohio State or Boise State? Oregon State -- America hates you.
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1. Well, I’ve been harping that the SEC is way down this year since the middle of the season, so this doesn’t really change much in my view. The ACC doesn’t have any teams that could hang with Florida or Alabama. But nine or ten of their teams would be competitive with the middle of the SEC (UGA, Ole Miss, S. Carolina, LSU)—the key word is competitive, I don’t mean they’d necessarily win. I’m not going to even bring up Tennessee, Kentucky, Auburn, Mississippi State, or Arkansas. Though Arkansas beat LSU so I should probably demote them from the middle.
Just watch out for the SEC next year though…
2. I think the SEC pecking order after the big 2 is UGA—Ole Miss—LSU—S. Carolina—Vanderbilt—Kentucky, to Capital One—Cotton—Peach (Chick Fil-A)—Outback—Music City—Liberty. So basically, what you’ve got.
3. Yeah, I’m perplexed by that as well. I mean, the man just won an SEC Coach of the Year last season.
4. Oklahoma would get my vote, and that’s based on an eyeball test. Really, there’s no fair way to choose between those three teams though. Which is why—if Missouri upsets whoever next week (a very big IF)—then a left-out team from this division could get some serious title game looks.
Ohio State gets the last at-large berth if Southern Cal does indeed when. Its about ratings and money. That 2007 Fiesta Bowl everyone loved so much? Third lowest-rated BCS Bowl of all time.
Now watch UCLA beat USC next week.
by The ArchDawg on
Nov 30, 2008 1:18 AM EST
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If we lose to UF
I’d looooooove to play the Buckeyes. Tressel only thinks he’s seen archaic beatings on the ground.
by Stuck in the Plains on
Nov 30, 2008 9:47 AM EST
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just an opinion
You have been buying the WWL’s bs for too long
by lola on
Nov 30, 2008 12:01 PM EST
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Okay
Would you care to explain that statement? I think I’ve laid out the reasons for pretty much everything I’ve ever stated on this Web site, often with statistics, sometimes with information gleaned from what I see on the field. I generally find myself screaming at the television whenever an ESPN “analyst” opens their mouth, and I avoid the WWL’s halftime shows like the plague. If I agree with them, it’s often because I and whoever is speaking for them at the time looked at the same information and came to a similar conclusion. So if you’d like to support that allegation instead of just making it, I’m open to debating it and see if I can improve.
Please, please, don’t accuse me of simply getting my opinions from someone else. You can say a lot of ugly things about me, but that’s an argument I take personally. So back it up, or don’t make it.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on
Nov 30, 2008 4:36 PM EST
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I see you're a Clemson fan
So if it’s about the ACC, let me explain:
I’m still not sure the ACC is that good. But that’s really not the point here. Coming into this year, a lot of people (including the WWL) thought the SEC was the best conference in the land. That reputation took a knock Saturday, as it should have. If the SEC can’t beat the ACC over the course of a year, then it’s not the best league in the country and might not even be a great one. It’s probably an above-average to good conference.
And, as ArchDawg pointed out, some of our readers caught onto this much quicker than the MSM and other analysts did, and we picked up the theme pretty quickly. Look back through the archives. We knew the SEC was down, but just not this down.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on
Nov 30, 2008 4:43 PM EST
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my take...
1. Basically what ArchDawg said. First of all, the middle of the SEC (everyone other than Bama and Florida) is not very good. But we should also give credit where credit is due. The ACC embarrassed itself in OOC games early in the season, but a lot of its teams have come along over the course of the year. There’s no truly great team in the league, but it does have a number of very solid middle-tier teams. The conference is very balanced.
2. I don’t think anything has really changed as far as the bowl picture. Kentucky or Vandy might have been able to jump South Carolina with a win, but both lost as well. Ole Miss is playing better than UGA right now, but the Cap One will still go with the more nationally prominent Dawgs. The only question to me is whether the Outback, which picks before the Peach Bowl, goes against tradition and picks LSU instead of South Carolina, leaving Carolina in the Peach. The Outback usually takes an East Division team, but with Carolina not a very attractive team right now and LSU being more of a ‘name’ team, it wouldn’t surprise me if they go with the Tigers.
3. We’ll have to see who they hire before we judge them, but my initial impression is that it was an ill-advised move. MSU is a traditional cellar-dweller that had a few good years under a cheating coach. They need to stop pretending they’re Alabama and can fire a coach assuming that they’ll be able to find something better. I’m not saying Croom has done well, but with a solid recruiting class coming in, I think they should have given him a little more time to try to build the program.
4. Texas and Oklahoma is too close to call, IMO. As far the other at-large BCS bid, Ohio State will get it. Boise State is a nice story, but there’s no way they’ll get picked over the Buckeyes.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans. http://www.garnetandblackattack.com
by Gamecock Man on
Nov 30, 2008 2:07 PM EST
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I am so pissed at USC that i could scream
I mean how the hell do you lose to Clemson? Thats a disgrace. Just for that i say they should be on a 6 year probation from the SEC championship game. Oh wait that won’t be much of a deterrent.
When you are an Alabama fan you have to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because i want to.
by bammer on
Nov 30, 2008 6:25 PM EST
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Um, Georgia?
Georgia lost to Georgia Tech.
Besides, Clemson winning actually boosts Alabama’s SOS, so you should be happy about that. And a six-year probation from the SEC Championship Game is about what Alabama’s been on, right?
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on
Nov 30, 2008 11:16 PM EST
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I would argue
That UGA losing to a very good Tech team is respectable, USC losing to a terrible Clemson team is down right despicable. And honestly i don’t care about the SOS. If we beat UF, we go to the NC game. Plain and simple.
Wait a minute….has SC ever been in the SEC championship game?
When you are an Alabama fan you have to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because i want to.
by bammer on
Dec 1, 2008 10:06 AM EST
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Clemson's a different team than when you played them
Don’t get me wrong; I’m still angry that South Carolina lost that game and don’t think there’s any excuse for losing the game. But it’s not as bad as it looks. Dabo Swinney apparently figured out that that C.J. Spiller guy’s pretty good and ought to get the ball every once in a while.
And, true, we haven’t been to the SEC CG. But then we don’t act like our team’s been one of the best in the decade when it’s really only had a couple of good years.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on
Dec 1, 2008 3:50 PM EST
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Argualbly
Alabama is the greatest the conference has ever had and will ever have! So show some respect. We have also been to 2 since 99. So your jab though sweet, was off the mark.
When you are an Alabama fan you have to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because i want to.
by bammer on
Dec 1, 2008 4:17 PM EST
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or maybe...
Bama’s the reason they got in the rut at the beginning of the year to begin with.
When Bowden was fired, one of the things that was said, was that even after 6 or so games had been played since the Bama game, the players were still talking about that loss. That game wiped away their confidence, and it took them over half a season to finally get it back.
by jsholt969 on
Dec 2, 2008 7:14 AM EST
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1 – There’ll be some damage, but the SEC wasn’t exactly flying super high at this point anyhow. The difference, as noted by others above, is that the ACC has a number of teams in the ‘very good’ range, while the SEC goes pretty quickly from ‘excellent’ to ‘good’. I would have liked to see Ole Miss against an upper half ACC team…
2 – I don’t think the bowl picture really gets muddled much until the fifth pick at worst; 1-loss Bama goes to the Sugar, and 2-loss UF is pretty certain to go there too. (The BCS at-large pool is going to be awfully shallow this year, with so many of the top-14 being from the Big 12 or non-auto conferences.) Ole Miss is a comfortable second in the West, and almost has to go to the Cotton. UGA is the clear second in the East, which means the Cap One. I’d guess that USC and LSU are taken by the Outback/Peach; their late seasons weren’t real inspiring, but Vandy and Kentucky collapsed down the stretch.
3 – I’m pretty concerned that they’ll come after Strong – he’s an excellent coach, he knows the conference, and it would be brilliant PR. He’d be well advised to send them on their merry way and wait for decent mid-major, but you never know…
4 – Well, Oklahoma was it… and I guess they would have been my choice, by the narrowest of margins. But Texas is next in line for Miami if the Okies slip (and perhaps even if they don’t, god forbid.) UCLA would undoubtedly love to ruin USC’s season again, but that looks awfully unlikely. (Of course, it did in 2006 too.) And I haven’t a clue who gets the tenth spot… though there’s a rumour that Utah and Boise State might be matched up. Which would be a fiendishly clever ploy by the big 6; the little guys couldn’t claim they were being shorted if two of them got in, but they wouldn’t be given a chance for a really prominent scalp.
by peachy rex on
Dec 1, 2008 3:59 AM EST
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