BlogPoll Ballot, Week 10 -- Stop looking at me like I'm crazy
by cocknfire on Nov 3, 2008 1:25 AM EST
in SEC Football
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PrintFirst of all -- no, this isn't an attempt to get a reaction from people, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does.
Yes, that's Florida at No. 2. They have the most i mpressive wins in the country, and the Ole Miss loss is no longer terrible enough (by my estimation) to keep them any 
lower. I considered putting them at No. 1, but that seemed unfair -- and neither of their wins are quite as impressive as beating Texas. So I went with Texas Tech. Alabama's wins no longer seem good enough to keep them in the Top 2, and Penn State's wins aren't all that great, but good enough to keep at No. 4.
I heard all of you who suggested keeping some combination of Texas Tech, Alabama and Penn State at 1-2-3 because they're undefeated. But as a resume voter, which I am at this point of the season, I feel like I can only give someone so much credit for that. Let's say (just for argument) that someone had wins against Texas Tech, Alabama, Penn State, Texas, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma and Southern Cal but a loss to Temple. That's about as bad a loss as you can have, but the rest of the schedule has to be worth something.
I think annihilating Georgia and LSU, along with victories over average teams like Miami and Kentucky -- which got waxed by the Gators -- is good enough to merit No. 2.
Texas falls to No. 5. Putting them at No. 4 to me is a bit lazy; yes, they beat Missouri, but that doesn't look as good as it did when it happened, and I think Oklahoma is going to turn out being worse than we all think they are. Oklahoma State and Oklahoma round out your Big XII section of the ballot, which still needs some sorting.
Southern Cal moves up a spot, mostly because of Georgia's loss, and Boise State leapfrogs Utah. Ohio State moves up thanks to Georgia. North Carolina and Michigan State benefit from the complete unimpressiveness of the rest of the field.
Missouri barely beat Baylor. Georgia, we know. TCU's resume is not that great. Florida State loses to Georgia Tech and falls three, while Ball State, Georgia Tech and Miami move up because everyone else has officially pissed me off.
Minnesota falls for losing to Northwestern, I'm still struggling with why I let LSU and California back in, though Cal has the Oregon victory now. And, yes, Northwestern. Maryland and West Virginia fall on reassessments of their resumes. (Really, the 'Eers haven't beaten anyone.) If the fighting Bill Stewarts can win a few more Big East games, they might be considered for a spot on the ballot.
Tulsa might deserve better than this, but they lost to Arkansas. The Hogs are better than we thought but not that much better. Oregon's gone after the loss to California. Connecticut's loss to West Virginia pretty much knocks them permanently out, while Boston College is the weekly ACC victim. They could be back soon enough.
Who's on the radar screen? Oregon State is there; after all, they could still end up in the Rose Bowl, and the Pac-10 Championship is worth something. And if they run the table against a slate that includes at Arizona and home games against California and Oregon, they deserve it.
South Carolina has beaten all the average-to-bad teams they've faced and none of the quality teams they've faced. Maybe if they win out -- or even beat Arkansas and Clemson and lose respectably to Florida -- they'll see the poll.
Pitt and Cincinnati could end up being good, but the Bearcats still have the waxings at the hands of Oklahoma and Connecticut.
Tell me why I'm wrong.
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Defense.. Defense...
I think Texas Tech loses in a couple of weeks.
And then with Florida. I’m nervous about them, but the way I see it, they rely on their running game (I base that on the fact that they didn’t start playing like they are now until they got the running game going in the Arkansas game), and that plays right into Alabama’s strength. Nobody has been able to run on Bama this year. But we’ll have to wait till the SECCG to find out whether I’m right.
Texas Tech is first in the Big XII in total defense
That’s only good for 54th nationally, but remember they’ve faced two pretty good offenses in Kansas and Texas so far. They’ve got a good enough run game now that the Red Raiders’ offense is almost impossible to defend; throw in the defense competence, and it’s a better team than most people think.
And I’m still up in the air on Florida vs. Alabama, but they have the better resume right now. We’ll see if they end up that way.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
I just remember 3 years ago...
when Bama faced Texas Tech, and Tech had the number 1 offense in the nation. What happened when they faced the number 1 defense in the nation? 10 points. It was by far the smallest offensive output they had that season. There were several times in that game where both teams played absolutely terrible defense. That 91 yard touchdown wouldn’t have happened in the SEC. The guy might have caught the ball, but a safety would have been brought over to take him out of bounds. Crabtree wouldn’t have made that touchdown on the last play. In nothing else, he would have been pushed out of bounds, but I’m guessing the pass would have been broken up.
I’d rather go with teams that have dominant defenses and offenses that at least get the job done. So I’m going with Bama and Florida in the top two spots. Bama first just because Florida lost to a team Bama beat. Winning when you aren’t playing at your best is always an important thing to be able to do to be a champion.
We’ll see how the SEC championship goes. I do think Bama has an edge over any other opponent Florida has faced based on their running D, but Florida’s offense is still pretty scary.
This year's TTU team isn't like the others...
In the past, the Red Raiders typically ran up the score on Baylor, Iowa State and the like, but got stuffed by Oklahoma and Texas. This team is good enough to play with the Bix XII elite, and they’re likely good enough to play with the SEC elite as well. Harrell and Crabtree are great players.
Go Cocks!
If you judge by how they are playing right now, you're right
but if you count previous games into the mix, then you are wrong to put Florida ahead of Alabama. It doesn’t matter much, though, because they’ll most likely settle it on the field next month.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Bear Bryant
This is previous games in the mix ... so let's take a look
This is how I see it —
Florida’s best win: Georgia by 39. Alabama’s best win: Georgia by 11. (Even if you go take out the garbage time, it’s still only about a 20-30 point win.) Win: Florida
Florida’s next two wins: LSU by 30, Kentucky by 58. Alabama’s next two wins: Clemson by 24, Arkansas by 35. Win: Florida and Florida
The rest for Florida: Miami by 23, Arkansas by 31, Tennessee by 24, Hawaii by 46. The rest for Alabama: Tennessee by 20, Kentucky by 3, Ole Miss by 4, Arkansas State by 35, Tulane by 14, Western Kentucky by 34. Win: Florida
The only place Alabama is better than Florida is that it beat Ole Miss. I think the better quality of Florida’s wins wipes that away.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
So, beating GA at GA rather than on a neutral field counts for nothing in your book...
also, losing AT HOME to Ole Miss is somehow better than beating a healthier Kentucky by less than Florida did.
I’m not sure that I follow your logic.
Final thought: Besides the Ole Miss game, Georgia actually outgained Florida, but turned the ball over 4 times and had terrible luck with FL’s returns on the same. Just citing the final scores is a bit misleading.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Bear Bryant
Okay, let's give Alabama credit for a better win against Georgia
We still have this for Florida:
—Smashed LSU and beat Miami, both ranked teams on my ballot. (I have to base it on the rest of my ballot, because that’s the only way for me to be logically consistent when talking “ranked” teams — otherwise, I’m saying that someone who’s ranked that I don’t think deserves to be ranked should still count as ranked, which makes no sense.)
—Crushed Kentucky
—Defeated no one else who was ranked by an impressive margin
Alabama has no other defeat of a ranked team — I don’t think anyone has any of their opponents other than Georgia ranked — and has a much narrower win over a healthier Kentucky.
I’m sorry, I just look at that and think that Florida’s victories are of a slightly better quality. Then I have to factor in the Ole Miss loss vs. the Ole Miss win. That’s where I’m hung up. I see your point; I really do. But the fact is that, looking at it now, it’s pretty clear that Alabama’s slate isn’t as tough as Florida’s. Add in LSU and Auburn (even if they’re downish), and it might get there.
I’m turning it over in my head — really I am. This is just a list of what I’m having to wrestle with.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
Not Anti-UF Bias!
Florida at #2? Ahead of Texas and Penn State? Food for thought. Take it or leave it:
—two best wins in the country? How are UGA or LSU appreciably better than Oklahoma, Texas, Oklahoma State, Missouri, or even Ohio State?
—Alabama blew out UGA worse than Florida did—in our own house!, and they’re undefeated.
—Penn State is also undefeated.
-Their wins on paper don’t look as good as Florida’s perhaps, but they also don’t have a loss. And those wins include an Ohio State team that is at least on par, arguably, with UGA and an Oregon State team that may just win the Pac-10 (yes, the Pac-10 sucks but they beat the only good team in it), so their best wins aren’t too far away.
-They haven’t played the toughest schedule, yes, but neither has Florida when you think about it. And Penn State has been consistent ALL year, not in just their past two games.
-This is my judgement, but playing Ohio State on the road at night without committing a penalty and holding them without a touchdown to me was one of the most impressive performances of any team this year. I don’t know why a lot of us in SEC country didn’t appreciate the defensive performance in that game, by the way.
—And heeere’s Texas. Any way you slice it:
Best Wins: Oklahoma/Okie State/Missouri trump UGA/LSU/South Carolina
Loss: on the road, at the last second, against a top-10 team at the end of a tough four-game stretch versus at home to a 5-4 team.
Another judgement call: I don’t buy this notion that Florida would run away with Texas in a head-to-head matchup. It’s not like Texas is a slouch.
Thoughts?
In regards to 'Bama blowing Georgia out worse
I’m of course talking about in the stats department, not of course in the final scoreboard. Watching both games Georgia shot themselves in the foot, but ’Bama dominated much more than that final score indicated. Take it or leave it.
Some good points I'll have to consider
But…
Texas needed to rally to beat Oklahoma and just edged Oklahoma State. Florida annihilated LSU and UGA. Is beating Missouri the way Texas did any better than beating Kentucky by 58? I’m not sure. And I’m not sure Alabama’s win against Georgia was that much more impressive (but see above for more on Florida vs. Alabama.)
Penn State beat Ohio State. Barely. And at the last minute. Following a Buckeye mistake. I applaud the defensive win — but only to an extent. And I’m still not sold on the fact that the Oregon State win is all that good. Good, but not all that good.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
Just food for thought.
Perhaps I’m penalizing UF for losing—esp. to a 5-4 team at home—whereas that loss doesn’t offset their (impressive) wins in your estimation. Like I said, something to think about.
My thoughs are this
Bama beats UGA when they are supposedly playing their “best” football, on a black out, under the lights in their house, and on prime time TV.
Bama detroys Clemson on the 1st game of the season, in prime time, on a neutral field and sends their team into a tailspin. Clemson has yet to get off the floor after that ass whoopin!
UF beats up on a injury decimated UK team and does beat LSU at home.
UF has also already lost a game to a team that Vandy beat.
UF does destroy UGA in very convincing fashion.
You are also penalizing Bama for jumping on UGA quick and letting off the gas. My question is why did it take UF so long to “blow out” UGA. If they were so good, that score sould have have been 31-0 at half. Wait that looks awfully familiar!
When you are an Alabama fan you have to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because i want to.
Very good points
And I’ll have to consider all of them. You guys almost have me to moving Alabama back above Florida.
Buuuuuuuuut …
First of all, beating Clemson counts very little in my book right now. Sure, the Tigers might be better than their record, but their record is still their record, and that’s all a resume voter can use. There’s a reason Clemson is operating under an “interim” head coach right now, and it’s not only because of the Alabama loss. (And I can point to a bunch of teams that have come this year from humiliating losses to look better than Clemson. Ohio State and, in the ACC, Virginia leap to mind.) Sure, you get credit for dismantling a BCS team at a neutral site; but how much credit should you get when that team turns out to not be very good?
Again, let’s nullify the Kentucky wins — call them even — and give Alabama the edge on Georgia. Florida still has the impressive victory over Miami and LSU. The rest of both team’s schedules is pretty much filler.
“Lost to a team that Vandy beat.” This is, as I said above, the one thing that really gives me pause about this. The Ole Miss loss is troubling — troubling because Alabama hasn’t made a mistake like that all year. How much is that worth? Maybe moving Alabama to No. 2 and dropping Florida back to No. 3. The arguments here are at least worth me taking another look.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
Well, as I said,
it’s all academic at this point anyway. The good thing about the SEC is that they get to settle it on the field in the end. As a Tider, I hope for the best and that ALA-FL square off in Atlanta to see which is the best team.
For my money, if GA had kicked an onside kick against us when they first got on the board, we might have beaten them by about 35, too.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Bear Bryant
Put Alabama where you want
I actually don’t like us at #1. The #2 spot left us something to wish for. Now that we have it, all we can do is go down from here.
Do i think Alabama has more talent or is a better team than UF? No. The Gators have the type of depth and talent that Alabama is in the process of attaining. Remember, this was not supposed to be the year. Several things have contributed to this “Being the Year” but none being bigger than this.
The over all drop off in “Top Teams” in the SEC
UT, Auburn, and dare i say LSU have all taken a dramatic (LSU hasn’t fallen that far) turn for the worse. Even Arkansas is just terrible and Ole Miss is still recovering from the Orgeron years. Thats 4-5 wins right there. In normal years thats only 2-3 guarranteed wins if that. So yes the reason Alabama has been so successful is partly due to the decline in talent in the SEC.
BUT
This doesn’t mean we are overrated. Alabama is built right now for success. We have the best O-line in the SEC, the best overall running game in the SEC, i would also argue if not the best but the 2nd best defense in the SEC and a senior QB who doesn’t make mistakes and manages the game perfectly (so far). If you add all that up its a perfect recipe for a successful season.
So think what you may but this Alabama team isn’t the 2005 Alabama team that won on pure emotion and will. Then lost its last two games due to attrition. They are coached well, are in amazing physical shape and are driven by the fact that no one thought they would be here. Even if we lose two of our last four (LSU and UF) I will still be proud of this team and not think it a failure. Or if we make it to the NC game and lose, i will still thump my chest. They have already greatly surpassed my wildest dreams and have given this ounce proud fan base something to smile about again. So yeah, put UF where ever you want.
When you are an Alabama fan you have to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because i want to.
Do you
think that a healthy UK stays on the field with UF? I ask this as a serious question – the tenor of your argument suggests that you do, but I don’t want to simply assume that. Because, quite frankly, I think that once you get to a certain margin, no excuse – injuries or refs or bad luck – really flies.
Ironically, though, I agree with the Bama partisans on the larger issue. I too would keep the Tide ahead of the Gators – for now.
I think injuries play a huge part
The team that UK fielded against UF was far different on both sides of the ball than the one that played the Tide. Thats not excuses but fact. When a team plays without both of its starting safeties, two LB’s, a DE, and their best playmaker on offense, that team will struggle against any team. Especially UF.
When you are an Alabama fan you have to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because i want to.
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